Iniesta or Zidane?

[Captain Stu]

I think I like players that have that *edge*. I've always enjoyed watching the footballers that are just sitting on the cusp of being bat**** mental; Zidane, Stoichkov, Ketsbaia.

I'm jesting about good old Temuri, but those players that are a little bit crazy, unpredictable and whatnot always seem to be on that fine line of genius ... much like Suarez.

Iniesta is just a goody two shoes.

Aahh but a goody two shoes with incredible balance, a great first touch, an eye for both a pass and goal and he advertises ice cream in Spain too.

[saj]

His cringey cheating in that World Cup definitely damaged his rep.

It wasn't that bad . It happens week in, week out! But yes he did look like a ****. It wasn't as bad a incident as say Maradona's handball.
Van Gaal attempted to ruin his career and I think eventually it was him who released him from Barca in his second spell. He played him on the wing when he was first in charge. Van Gaal always was a ******* of a manager and I'm thankful he is nowhere near our club.

Anyway back on topic, check out the stats of Rivaldo. For an attacking midfielder (just as Zidane was), his stats are phenomenal. And he frequently tore teams apart, big teams as well. His performance when Newcastle beat Barca in 1997 (I think it was when Asprillia scored a hat trick and Barca lost 3-2) was one of the best individual performances I've witnessed. And who can forget the:

In the following 2000–01 season, Rivaldo was once again the second highest goal scorer of the league with 23 goals. In the last game of the season, against Valencia CF, Rivaldo scored a hat-trick to win the game 3–2. His third goal was a bicycle kick from the edge of the area in the 89th minute of the game, and is regarded as one of his greatest goals ever in a combination of importance and skill.[5] The win secured Barcelona a place in the following UEFA Champions League tournament. It was his season best with 36 goals.

He was amazing. Makes my world XI every time.

[saj]

Maradona in the 2nd tier???

Not having that.

Well don't have it then

[Tee]

Zidane. All day long every day.

[Shaggy]

It wasn't that bad . It happens week in, week out! But yes he did look like a ****. It wasn't as bad a incident as say Maradona's handball.
Van Gaal attempted to run his career and I think eventually it was him who released him from Barca in his second spell. He played him on the wing when he was first in charge. Van Gaal always was a ******* of a manager and I'm thankful he is nowhere near our club.

Anyway back on topic, check out the stats of Rivaldo. For an attacking midfielder (just as Zidane was), his stats are phenomenal. And he frequently tore teams apart, big teams as well. His performance when Newcastle beat Barca in 1997 (I think it was when Asprillia scored a hat trick and Barca lost 3-2) was one of the best individual performances I've witnessed. And who can forget the:



He was amazing. Makes my world XI every time.

I loved him as a player. I watched *that* hat-trick v Valencia live in the pub and I won't ever forget it.

[wiw]

Iniesta.

[danperkins]

Yes he was good but I'd put him in the same class as the likes of Rivaldo, Ronaldo (fat one), Ronaldinho, Figo, Iniesta, Xavi etc. Zidane had great skills and some nice touches, but was he consistent? He performed well on the big stage but I can recall his time at Juventus hardly being eye catching. I think Rivaldo was one of the most underrated players in recent times. In fact he was unbelievably talented and he was a game changer. He won games on his own for Barca and was consistent.

I suppose the next tier of players of players would be Cristiano Ronaldo, Pele, Maradona etc (not that I have properly seen the latter 2 play).

Messi is the one and only player in the next tier. He is unreal.

Rivaldo was an incredibly talented guy.. but to put him any where near the likes of Maradona,Pele,Zidane, Best, Cruyff,Eusebio,Platini,Di Stefano,Puskas,Beckenbauer,Zico IMO is untrue.

Obviously the way the modern game is played is completely different to the era of most of those mentioned above, but you can only judge each player based of their performances in their given era.

As for Zidane being inconsistent? Well he is considered one of the greatest players of all time.. so i'd say people think he he was consistent enough to deserve that tag. He has a whole host of individual awards from his time at Juve alone.

A player like Zidane doesn't come around very often. IMO the best 'all round' player there has ever been.

EDIT: Best,Van Basten,Maradona,Ronaldo careers all could have went on for longer too, who knows what more they might have achieved.

[saj]

I meant to put Van Gaal tried to ruin and not run his career.

He did United over a few times and made Schmeichel look like a dick with a free kick. I've had a look but can't find it on youtube. When we played Barca in 2001, he was poor. It was the poorest performance I've seen from him when he was at his peak. Hyypia destroyed him!

[Shaggy]

Aye I was there. Delighted he was ****e but kind of a let down too.

[saj]

Rivaldo was an incredibly talented guy.. but to put him any where near the likes of Maradona,Pele,Zidane, Best, Cruyff,Eusebio,Platini,Di Stefano,Puskas,Beckenbauer,Zico IMO is untrue.

I didn't though . I can't compare him to players I've never seen and Im certain the vast majority of people on this forum have seen any of the players mentioned above on a regular basis so how on earth can we judge them? And even those that have seen the above play, mostly only ever saw them play once every 4 years in the World Cup for 6 games . To judge a player, you have to see them play fairly frequently both at club and international level. Some players have had fantastic international careers (Milan Baros is a good example) but have been average in terms of their club career. I only stuck on my second list Pele and Maradona going off what elders have told me.

[RichC]

I'm not sure Milan Baros is a good example to put in amongst Zico, Zidane, iniesta, rivaldo etc....

[saj]

I'm not sure Milan Baros is a good example to put in amongst Zico, Zidane, iniesta, rivaldo etc....

I wasn't. I was just giving an extreme example. Sometimes the judgement of players comes down to how well they perform for their national teams. I personally think that's bollocks. How people can say Messi isn't as good as Maradona because he hasn't won the world up is ridiculous IMO. Just looking at Messi's stats is enough to tell you that he is in a league of his own.

[Alex]

iniesta is obviously a good player but he is just a cog in a well oiled machine.

zizi by a mile. he is a one man game changer. he is a one man machine.

You could say that about Messi then.

[RichC]

I wasn't. I was just giving an extreme example. Sometimes the judgement of players comes down to how well they perform for their national teams. I personally think that's bollocks. How people can say Messi isn't as good as Maradona because he hasn't won the world up is ridiculous IMO. Just looking at Messi's stats is enough to tell you that he is in a league of his own.

I get what you're saying but still Baros

[danperkins]

I didn't though . I can't compare him to players I've never seen and Im certain the vast majority of people on this forum have seen any of the players mentioned above on a regular basis so how on earth can we judge them? And even those that have seen the above play, mostly only ever saw them play once every 4 years in the World Cup for 6 games . To judge a player, you have to see them play fairly frequently both at club and international level. Some players have had fantastic international careers (Milan Baros is a good example) but have been average in terms of their club career. I only stuck on my second list Pele and Maradona going off what elders have told me.

I didn't say you did mate, i was just making a general comment saying... IMO they would be the top tier of greatest footballers of all time regardless of if i have seen them play live. Rivaldo for me wouldn't make the second or third tier either. Fabulous player nonetheless.

Most of us have never been lucky enough to have seen them play in real life obviously but personally (and i'd imagine like many of EST) have seen so many replays,videos,documentaries,literature etc on all of the players i have mentioned. Every one of them consistently world class players. Best maybe being the only one not to have succeeded at international level.. but then not need as he was a truly incredible talent. How you can say Zidane wasn't consistently good is beyond me. i reckon you would be in a very tiny minority with that opinion.

I have been lucky enough to have seen Messi play in the flesh but even if i hadn't i can still recognise that he is truly a special player. We see him playing for Barca alot but not many will get to see him play international football regularly unless you follow south american football. One slight criticism of Messi (not IMO) is that he often hasn't brought his Barca form to international level... regardless he's still a genius footballer, i don't have to see him at international level to recognise this.

EDIT: Milan Baros - Running down blind alleys since 2002