Do you still have faith?

[Red Chilli]

Interesting stats so far:

Pretty much Yes 50%, no 25%, unsure 25%

Quite shocking that. I thought I was one of the few.

[Johnny]

That's the thing though. It's not that absolutely every Liverpool fan does not WANT Rafa to succeed. I want him to succeed more than anyone. I love the man for what he has done for us. I hope beyond belief he proves me wrong, I'm not stating **** on here just to be proven right. Its more than that. We all care deeply about this club, those who go to games and those who don't. Those who annoy us and those who we admire on here, to a man (or woman), love Rafa and LFC. But LFC more. I'd gladly eat humble pie if he delivers and we go to Moscow. What I want in my heart and what my eyes tell me are different. Our style of play is ****. We have better players that everyone bar Arse, Chelsea, Scum, yet we simply underperform. The question for all is do we wait and give him another few years of this or do we cut and run. Never an easy decision, but one that has to be made. If Rafa/Parry/G+H come out and say that we won't CHALLENGE for another 4 years, then so be it. We might all expect this. But everyone expected us to really challenge this year and exactly half way through the season we are done. Fighting for fourth with teams who are catching us and we have a genuine fight for 4th on our hands. The debate is on whether to continue down the road or not. Not whether we want to be proved right. Being right is irrelevant to me. A successful, football-playing Liverpool is everything.

I wish all ManU fans were like you when fergie didn`t win the league in his 1st 7-8 yrs.how long did wenger take.And lastly how can we compete when we lose out on Ronaldo,malouda,Simao,alves etc. continually????

[Revo]

Can someone show me who is the tactical genius Rafa Benitez.
One man up front against Wigan. Yes Wigan.
Rafa's not a tactical genius, he's just too clever for his own good. He thinks he can try fancy new formations against inferior opposition and we'll come up trumps. Sorry Rafa but you're suffering the same delusions as some of our fans. Just the name Liverpool Football Club doesn't guarantee you a win.

He paid £11m for Babel so what does he do when the chips are down? Sticks the lumbering Deadly Dirk on the wing. Nice one.
He paid £11m for Babel yet prefers Harry Kewell, a player whose best days are long gone.
He paid £11m for Babel, £10m for Kuyt and £7m for Crouch yet prefers a central midfielder as a second striker.
Basically what you're saying Rafa is that the strikers YOU bought simply aren't good enough.

We're no nearer winning the league now than we've ever been.

Do me a favour and stop using the league as your practice ground for European success.

I've had enough of Rafa the 'tactical genius'.

some ****ing brutal honesty there and pretty hard to argue against

[Red Chilli]

I wish all ManU fans were like you when fergie didn`t win the league in his 1st 7-8 yrs.how long did wenger take.And lastly how can we compete when we lose out on Ronaldo,malouda,Simao,alves etc. continually????

Wenger won the double in his first full season mate

[bigfooty]

.how long did wenger take.

1.5 seasons. Your point?

[vonk]

If it's all about the money though we would canter past teams such as Birmingham, Wigan, Man City and Blackburn. Valencia would never have won the titles they did surpassing Real Madrid and Barcelona. Chelsea would win every season as their squad almost certainly cost more than any other in the league and Arsenal wouldn't have a hope in hell this season when you consider the cost of their squad is tiny compared to Utd / Chelsea (and maybe us too).

The fact is that in Spain Rafa was up against the odds yet delivered. In part it was down to the nature of the league though where about 10 less points per season are required to claim the title. There is, to be blunt, more room to be average. Over here every off day you have can potentially be the difference between winning and losing the title. 5 off-days and you're really up against it. That's why there are sensationalist headlines every time one Arsenal, Chelsea or Man Utd lose and even when they fail to win.

I think Hicks was right in what he said about the mental attitude of the side. Sometimes I feel that Rafa sends us out looking to ensure we don't lose as the primary goal, rather than the more positive attitude Arsenal and Man Utd tend to display. Today post game he talked about needing more luck. If we're in a position where we need luck to get a result against Wigan then something really is very wrong.

Right on that man. It's not about how many 30 million players we have. It would help against the bigger teams but against Birmingham, Wigan this squad is more than enough. We just cannot figure how to break them down. Simple as that.

[Johnny]

Wenger won the double in his first full season mate

1.5 seasons. Your point?

I`ve a terrible memory.retracted.Care to answer the Fergie question????

[Sheik Yerbouti]

So you think Babel is the answer to our problems.

I don't know. I just want a manager who moans about a lack of financial support to start using the £11m player he bought rather than relying on a central midfielder to experiment with.

He may be the answer but if he's not, then surely Rafa stands charged of wasting a load of cash on yet another forward who is not good enough.

[Red Chilli]

I`ve a terrible memory.retracted.Care to answer the Fergie question????

The one about missing out on those players?

Well, like I keep saying, we need to folllow the Arsenal method.

NO not buying up loads of tallent and languishing in 4th for 10 years until they grow a set. I'm talking about PLAYING FOOTBALL. Pass and move, pace, skill, tempo. Not hollywood passes all the time.

Our players don't have the same technical skill as Arsenals. Too many of our players have a poor first touch, poor instincts, poor vision and poor movement. That's a coaching issue IMO.

[vonk]

I wish all ManU fans were like you when fergie didn`t win the league in his 1st 7-8 yrs.how long did wenger take.And lastly how can we compete when we lose out on Ronaldo,malouda,Simao,alves etc. continually????

Please, Johnny, read my post again. I said that the decision has to be made whether to go that route or not. If G+H think yes then come out and tell us that we wont challenge for 5 more years. I think we'd be sad but at least we would have a plan and maybe more patience. But we are expected to challenge, so what other kind of reaction do you expect when another season ends. Is it even possible that Ferguson was at least showing signs of progress in this period of time. What is the benchmark? Give him 10 years, 15? For me it is signs of progress and the promise that someday we will challenge. Even if the challenge had lasted into the start of March this year I would have been happy. But it's fcukin gone by New Year once again.

[Johnny]

I don't know. I just want a manager who moans about a lack of financial support to start using the £11m player he bought rather than relying on a central midfielder to experiment with.

He may be the answer but if he's not, then surely Rafa stands charged of wasting a load of cash on yet another forward who is not good enough.

Maybe Rafa sees him everyday on the training pitch and thinks he had no role to play.Maybe Rafa thought the team he put out tonight were good enough to beat Wigan which on the evidence he was right.Maybe Babel needed rested or was not great in training this week.Maybe Rafa thought harry needed to play more to get back up to speed after his injury.Maybe........

[bigfooty]

I`ve a terrible memory.retracted.Care to answer the Fergie question????

You have a point there . But I would counter it by suggesting that it was, to some extent, a different era. Football has developed significantly from when Fergie took charge and even perhaps from when Wenger took charge - though maybe not quite as much.

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Maybe Rafa sees him everyday on the training pitch and thinks he had no role to play.Maybe Rafa thought the team he put out tonight were good enough to beat Wigan which on the evidence he was right.Maybe Babel needed rested or was not great in training this week.Maybe Rafa thought harry needed to play more to get back up to speed after his injury.Maybe........

.....maybe he got it wrong AGAIN. No maybe.

[Red Chilli]

Fergie had a terrible start, I think they finished in the bottom half, but then he showed progress year on year. It's difficult o see Rafa making the same progree at the moment, we've stalled in these last 2 years, if not gone slightly backwards

[Revo]

Maybe Rafa sees him everyday on the training pitch and thinks he had no role to play.Maybe Rafa thought the team he put out tonight were good enough to beat Wigan which on the evidence he was right.Maybe Babel needed rested or was not great in training this week.Maybe Rafa thought harry needed to play more to get back up to speed after his injury.Maybe........

sad day for liverpool football club but harry kewells best days are behind him. if the manager cannot recognise this after his last 2 performances, i dont want to say it but for ****s sake rafa, come on man