Back Rafa.. or the Kop wilderness years could stretch on to eternity(Reade)

[Jesus]

I don't think he has a much better record than Kuyt. And he did nothing when we outplayed them last Sunday. Kuyt was the better player of the 2.

I think it's unfair looking at one player in isolation.

Kuyt is average, mate.

Probably tops the chart on Prozone, though.

[Jesus]

Well he got 2 players for 2 positions instead of splashing out on one. If he had the money he would have bought Alves as well.

That's exactly the problem. Two average players in two positions, instead of the top quality one we really needed, and persevering with what we had until the next window.

[Guest]

Kuyt is average, mate.

Probably tops the chart on Prozone, though.

He isn't 'average' as you say it because he's playing for a top club and for a top coach. Every team needs it's unfashionable player, United had Phil Neville playing for them in midfield and they still won trophies galore.

[Red Chilli]

continued...

If he was allowed to sell Peter Crouch, Momo Sissoko and Scott Carson this month, he could show a £15m profit from his own dealings.

15 million profit? and "his own dealings"? Yes, he bought and sold those players all by himself didn't he?

Down that road lies only one certainty. Liverpool will undoubtedly emulate Manchester United.

By going for 26 years without winning the league. Or even Chelsea, by going 40.

Stupid ending, despite it being factually incorrect, it's also more speculative scare-mongering.

All in all, I wasn't impressed by that article at all

[Guest]

That's exactly the problem. Two average players in two positions, instead of the top quality one we really needed, and persevering with what we had until the next window.

I think he took the common sense solution because at the time we needed a striker as well as a right midfielder. Pennant was lauded as the best player of his generation at the time so he was banking on developing his potential.

It's easy criticizing decisions in hindsight like you're doing mate, but when it comes the time to make that decision you have to make it, and I think Rafa made the correct one.

[Jesus]

He isn't 'average' as you say it because he's playing for a top club and for a top coach. Every team needs it's unfashionable player, United had Phil Neville playing for them in midfield and they still won trophies galore.

Phil Neville didn't cost 10 million quid and the majority of our transfer budget.

If we needed someone unfashionable to run around like a headless chicken all game and miss easy chances, we could have used one of the young ressies who would have jumped at the chance, and put the 10 million towards Alves/Simao.

Kuyt was brought in to boost our goals column, and lets face it, was no improvement Crouch and Morientes.

[Guest]

continued...



15 million profit? and "his own dealings"? Yes, he bought and sold those players all by himself didn't he?



Stupid ending, despite it being factually incorrect, it's also more speculative scare-mongering.

All in all, I wasn't impressed by that article at all

But your assumption is also pure speculation.

[Red Chilli]

But your assumption is also pure speculation.

What assumption?

[Jesus]

It's easy criticizing decisions in hindsight like you're doing mate, but when it comes the time to make that decision you have to make it, and I think Rafa made the correct one.

He got it badly wrong.

No point disputing it. The proof is in our stunted progress.

[Jesus]

I think he took the common sense solution because at the time we needed a striker as well as a right midfielder

No, what we needed was an injection of real quality up front or out wide, but he decided to spread his money and pad out the squad instead.

He should also have stuck to his guns over Gerrard playing on the right and focused on improving our strikeforce.

[Jesus]

What could have been.

Reina

Alves Carra Agger Riise

Gerrard Alonso Masch Simao

Torres Crouch

[Guest]

Phil Neville didn't cost 10 million quid and the majority of our transfer budget.

If we needed someone unfashionable to run around like a headless chicken all game and miss easy chances, we could have used one of the young ressies who would have jumped at the chance.

Kuyt was brought in to boost our goals column, and lets face it, was no improvement Crouch and Morientes.

In that sense alone you have a point but I don't think for the money we had, that we could afford splashing out 18m pounds on Alves. And what if Alves was a flop here ? Every signing bears a minimum of risk. Kuyt was an established Holland international. I guess it's not only Rafa who sees something in him.

And the way he plays, is exactly how Rafa wants him to play, IMO. i.e Deep lying and running around creating space for others. Yes there surely are more effective players around and if you look at Arsenal and Man Utd, you will see players of the calibre of Rooney and Tevez. Modern type strikers who base their game on constant movement and and eye for goal, on which Kuyt is inferior, but both cost a lot of money.

It's more difficult coming from where we were and to try to bridge that gap, and more so when our main rivals are also progressing and buying top talents.

The only way is to either be patient or outsmart them in the transfer market by buying ready made talent for top money. Babel and Lucas are both works in progress. Man Utd consolidated their team by buying players with great potential who could also fit into their system right away ... But at a price too.

[Red Chilli]

Come on fredo, what assumptiuon? I haven't got all day

[Guest]

What assumption?

That he has an agenda etc ... What if the journo had concrete info from sources he trusted ?

I think we should read what is in the press with a pinch of salt but equally must entertain the thought that it might be true.

The facts to me is that, at this point in time, the americans are struggling to raise money, either to buy players or to finance their purchase of the club and the stadium.

Their deadlines have been pushed back and back.

[Kopite_Colin]

That's the beauty of opinions Fredo. I think Rafa made ENTIRELY the wrong decision. Pennant & Bellamy never were good enough for LFC. To me it's as plain as the nose on your face, said so at the time and have been saying it ever since. If you're building, you build quality piece by quality piece. No point in perpetuating mediocrity. Rafa won the CL with Troare, Smicer & Biscan in the side. We can carry one or two "average" players for a season or half a season to the next window, but not a whole team of them. In buying Alves we may have lacked a quality striker for 4-5 months, but we had Kuyt & Crouch at the time, with Garcia, Cisse, Pongolle, LeTallec, Mellor & Lindfield still on the books. yes it would have been a risk -but the delivery would have been so much better which may have meant more goalscoring opportunities from the limited resources we had. Plus Alves gives you "possibilties" in that he can play RB or RM. Quality Cover.

Alternatively we could have gone vice-versa. I hate SG out wide, but we could have played Sissoko (who was Boss at the time) in the middle with Alonso and SG at RM. That way we could have bought a half-decent striker to play up with Crouch & Kuyt.

So to me which blew it whichever way you want to put it. Rafa ahd a choice of :

1) either playing a certain way to get the most out of the players he had (maybe not the way he wanted to play ultimately)

3) Playing the way he wanted but not to the strengths of the players rthat he had at his disposal.

I think he went for No.2 and got rid of players he didn't see fitting (e.g. Cisse) but he clearly didn't play to their strengths (Bellamy included). That's not to sya that was wrong, but time has also proved it wasn't successful (at least in the league).