Back Rafa.. or the Kop wilderness years could stretch on to eternity(Reade)

[Guest]

He got it badly wrong.

No point disputing it. The proof is in our stunted progress.

What's stunted progress for you, being potentially 9 points behind half way through the season ? In equal measure, do your analysis at the end of the season, not now ! Maybe his rotation will enable us to finish the season better than the others ?

We should stop over analysing things. Let's not let that descend into what happened in Ged's final years where it came to a point of no return because us fans lost faith in the manager.

[Jesus]

That's the beauty of opinions Fredo. I think Rafa made ENTIRELY the wrong decision. Pennant & Bellamy never were good enough for LFC. To me it's as plain as the nose on your face, said so at the time and have been saying it ever since. If you're building, you build quality piece by quality piece. No point in perpetuating mediocrity. Rafa won the CL with Troare, Smicer & Biscan in the side. We can carry one or two "average" players for a season or half a season to the next window, but not a whole team of them. In buying Alves we may have lacked a quality striker for 4-5 months, but we had Kuyt & Crouch at the time, with Garcia, Cisse, Pongolle, LeTallec, Mellor & Lindfield still on the books. yes it would have been a risk -but the delivery would have been so much better which may have meant more goalscoring opportunities from the limited resources we had. Plus Alves gives you "possibilties" in that he can play RB or RM. Quality Cover.

Alternatively we could have gone vice-versa. I hate SG out wide, but we could have played Sissoko (who was Boss at the time) in the middle with Alonso and SG at RM. That way we could have bought a half-decent striker to play up with Crouch & Kuyt.

So to me which blew it whichever way you want to put it. Rafa ahd a choice of :

1) either playing a certain way to get the most out of the players he had (maybe not the way he wanted to play ultimately)

3) Playing the way he wanted but not to the strengths of the players rthat he had at his disposal.

I think he went for No.2 and got rid of players he didn't see fitting (e.g. Cisse) but he clearly didn't play to their strengths (Bellamy included). That's not to sya that was wrong, but time has also proved it wasn't successful (at least in the league).

Nailed it.

[Fowler_God]

Has Rafa made mistakes? YES.

But when you are given £30m you have to decide how to spend it. If you need 6 positions filling then you have to split the cash 6 ways. There's no good just buying one and hoping your squad doesn't get hit with injuries and suspensions.

Some of the players you mention weren't first choice, but he had no choice in reality with some of them. He wanted Simao and Alves over Pennant, but the board wouldn't go any higher.

Gonzales was a young player with potential, who didn't cut it, but we didn't make a loss on him. Sissoko could leave LFC with his value doubled.

I would say of the lot only Dirk Kuyt was first choice. Would he have been first choice if he had Man Utds budget? Who knows.

All the majority of us are asking is that he is given the backing to get players that are first choice. If he then fails to deliver the required standard, then we can complain.

People forget that we have no divine right to success. FFS we are fans of LFC, not Newcastle, let's get realistic, eh?

[Red Chilli]

That he has an agenda etc ... What if the journo had concrete info from sources he trusted ?

I think we should read what is in the press with a pinch of salt but equally must entertain the thought that it might be true.

The facts to me is that, at this point in time, the americans are struggling to raise money, either to buy players or to finance their purchase of the club and the stadium.

Their deadlines have been pushed back and back.

**** off fredo, you're being a douche again.

I haven't made an assumption and you haven't come up with one. He clearly has an agenda by telling the owners own up or sell up.

And SO WHAT if I am making assumptions, I'm not a journalist writing an article which is published, I don't have to justify my assumptions and I don't pretend to be inthe know about how the club is being run.


Concrete info? I'm not bothered what's happening with concrete, I'm interested in LFC. Regardless, there is no such thing as concrete info, if he has concrete info then let's hear it, not just "informed sources claim" bull****.
So you think it's a fact that they're struggling to raise money? OK fredo, let's hear your evidence (concrete info).
Pushing deadlines back is not evidence that they're struggling to raise money, they're pushing the deadlines back because there is VERY strong evidence that the dollar hit rock bottom recently and is now about to bounce back. It makes sound financial sense to wait until they get the best deal if their creditors permit it.

[Jesus]

What's stunted progress for you, being potentially 9 points behind half way through the season ? In equal measure, do your analysis at the end of the season, not now ! Maybe his rotation will enable us to finish the season better than the others ?

We should stop over analysing things. Let's not let that descend into what happened in Ged's final years where it came to a point of no return because us fans lost faith in the manager.

It's his fourth season, mate, and we're out of another title race by Xmas. Not good enough, whichever way you spin it.

We've regressed badly, despite bringing in better quality this summer. To me that says there are major flaws in his methods.

Not sure what point you're trying to make about Ged. Without over analysis he would have stayed in the job a lot longer, despite clearly being not up to the task. The same should apply to Rafa.

[Tom]

continued...



This journo's agenda is clear

Brian Reade is a fanatical red.

[Red Chilli]

Brian Reade is a fanatical red.

Yeah, so am I Tom and I wouldn't write an article to be published which continues to stir the pot.
It's pathetic, can't he write something positive or at leat neutral instead of this polarised commentry on an incident with Rafa and the owners which they have STATED as being resolved?

In any case, Red Hot asked me why I thought it was a terrble article so I gave my opinion as worthless as it may be. Fredo couldn't resist trying to be a WUM again, sadly.

[Guest]

That's the beauty of opinions Fredo. I think Rafa made ENTIRELY the wrong decision. Pennant & Bellamy never were good enough for LFC. To me it's as plain as the nose on your face, said so at the time and have been saying it ever since. If you're building, you build quality piece by quality piece. No point in perpetuating mediocrity. Rafa won the CL with Troare, Smicer & Biscan in the side. We can carry one or two "average" players for a season or half a season to the next window, but not a whole team of them. In buying Alves we may have lacked a quality striker for 4-5 months, but we had Kuyt & Crouch at the time, with Garcia, Cisse, Pongolle, LeTallec, Mellor & Lindfield still on the books. yes it would have been a risk -but the delivery would have been so much better which may have meant more goalscoring opportunities from the limited resources we had. Plus Alves gives you "possibilties" in that he can play RB or RM. Quality Cover.

Alternatively we could have gone vice-versa. I hate SG out wide, but we could have played Sissoko (who was Boss at the time) in the middle with Alonso and SG at RM. That way we could have bought a half-decent striker to play up with Crouch & Kuyt.

So to me which blew it whichever way you want to put it. Rafa ahd a choice of :

1) either playing a certain way to get the most out of the players he had (maybe not the way he wanted to play ultimately)

3) Playing the way he wanted but not to the strengths of the players rthat he had at his disposal.

I think he went for No.2 and got rid of players he didn't see fitting (e.g. Cisse) but he clearly didn't play to their strengths (Bellamy included). That's not to sya that was wrong, but time has also proved it wasn't successful (at least in the league).

I don't dispute your points made, which are all valid ones.

Bellamy was a player who we accepted as a stop gap signing, and for the price we paid to him he didn't do that badly. Same could be said of Pennant, who had fantastic potential.

At the end of the day, Rafa tried to improved players with potential, without asking for bucket loads of money (because the club wasn't in a position to spend large sums at the time). That's a policy he tried to implement.

With investment, things were promised to change and that he would be able to compete in the top end. He delivered Yossi, Babel, Torres, Agger, Lucas all high quality players who improved the squad a lot. With that success rate, he should be allowed to spend again to allow the squad to improve further.

We need a top class central defender and if he has restrictions as regards money, he'll probably have to settle for his second choice or even third choice, while Manure, Tottenham or City snaps up the top class signing he wanted.

As for playing Stevie right midfield, he gets pilloried in the press for playing him there. He's played him there all season and some fans even criticized him for playing him too deep at times.

When things don't go for you, you'll never win. That's the crux of the matter. We're Liverpool and it goes with the territory.

[Guest]

Yeah, so am I Tom and I wouldn't write an article to be published which continues to stir the pot.
It's pathetic, can't he write something positive or at leat neutral instead of this polarised commentry on an incident with Rafa and the owners which they have STATED as being resolved?

In any case, Red Hot asked me why I thought it was a terrble article so I gave my opinion as worthless as it may be. Fredo couldn't resist trying to be a WUM again, sadly.

You have an attitude problem I'm sorry. Being a WUM ?

This has been my opinion since the beginning so how could you say that ??? You're totally out of order going off the rails once again Chilli, just because you have a different opinion.

[Tom]

Yeah, so am I Tom and I wouldn't write an article to be published which continues to stir the pot.
It's pathetic, can't he write something positive or at leat neutral instead of this polarised commentry on an incident with Rafa and the owners which they have STATED as being resolved?
.

Please outline the agenda that you say Brian Reade has. He wouldn't write anything that would damage the club.

Unfortunately, he's right about a lot in that article as I've posted previously and got horrendously slagged for. You may or may not believe me that's your perogative, but i can assure you I have no *agenda* to pursue.

[Red Chilli]

You have an attitude problem I'm sorry. Being a WUM ?

This has been my opinion since the beginning so how could you say that ??? You're totally out of order going off the rails once again Chilli, just because you have a different opinion.

Poor effort fredo, you think I'm going to bite with THAT?

[Guest]

Poor effort fredo, you think I'm going to bite with THAT?

Why did you say that I'm being a WUM ? I've heard that the other day and this totally pisses me off. I've been consistent with all what I've said in this forum since the beginning and yet I'm being pilloried and made a scapegoat for your pisstaking.

That's what is wrong with this place.

[Red Chilli]

Please outline the agenda that you say Brian Reade has. He wouldn't write anything that would damage the club.

Unfortunately, he's right about a lot in that article as I've posted previously and got horrendously slagged for. You may or may not believe me that's your perogative, but i can assure you I have no *agenda* to pursue.

I've never said you have an agenda Tom(unless you are Brian Reade ), so let's put that one to bed.

The agenda he has? He is trying to cause even more unrest between the fans and the owners and Rafa by writing this polarised unjustified nonsense which only serves to stir the pot.

This article is damaging to the club, I am shocked that you can't see that.

[Red Chilli]

Why did you say that I'm being a WUM ? I've heard that the other day and this totally pisses me off. I've been consistent with all what I've said in this forum since the beginning and yet I'm being pilloried and made a scapegoat for your pisstaking.

That's what is wrong with this place.

Put it in an emial to the User survey then fredo

"scapegoat"? Look it up mate

[Guest]

I've never said you have an agenda Tom(unless you are Brian Reade ), so let's put that one to bed.

The agenda he has? He is trying to cause even more unrest between the fans and the owners and Rafa by writing this polarised unjustified nonsense which only serves to stir the pot.

This article is damaging to the club, I am shocked that you can't see that.

How is that damaging the club ? You're underestimating our fans ability to read and judge by themselves. Don't you know you're having your opinion on a public forum yourself ?