Hammill - the return of the prodigal son?

[Sarb]

We're top of the league in December. We don't have a 100% league record but we've improved a hell of a lot in our ability to pick up points, especially when we're not playing our best.

You moaned like **** last year about being out of the title race by December. This December we're top and you say it's the least we should expect and moan about everything that's not been perfect. You're a moaner and we'll see what you say if we win the league. Actually, we probably wouldn't.

No actually I've said many a time I'll gladly hold my hands up and admit I'm wrong if we win the league

Yeah I moan that we're out of the title race in December. So why am I going to jump for joy just because we're in it come December? it's the least we should expect. Do you see the Chavs and Manc fans creaming themselves when they're top the first week in December? No.

But then I guess it's so long since we've been here that we've got to celebrate some sort of achivement in the league campaign right?

[Guest]

No actually I've said many a time I'll gladly hold my hands up and admit I'm wrong if we win the league

Yeah I moan that we're out of the title race in December. So why am I going to jump for joy just because we're in it come December? it's the least we should expect. Do you see the Chavs and Manc fans creaming themselves when they're top the first week in December? No.

But then I guess it's so long since we've been here that we've got to celebrate some sort of achivement in the league campaign right?

Creaming ourselves? Who told you we are doing so?

It's taking one step at a time. In every year Rafa's been here we've been very strong come the second part of the season; it was always our poor starts which made it impossible to make up. Now we're clearly in it and we'll be a very difficult team to beat let alone overtake during the coming months. Stats show that we tend to get stronger.

And we'll be having Torres back in 3 weeks time.

[BFG]

Creaming ourselves? Who told you we are doing so?

It's taking one step at a time. In every year Rafa's been here we've been very strong come the second part of the season; it was always our poor starts which made it impossible to make up. Now we're clearly in it and we'll be a very difficult team to beat let alone overtake during the coming months. Stats show that we tend to get stronger.

And we'll be having Torres back in 3 weeks time.

Forgive us for enjoying supporting our football team eh.

Sarb I'm sure you're a lovely chap outside of the arena of football forums but you are negative.

Even if we don't win the league it doens't mean you've been proven right and anyone owes you an apology mate. It just means that things haven't gone the way they could.

There's so many things that could happen between now and the end that makes any sort of predictions completely pointless. Chelsea could win every match from now until the end and we could win all except one and lose it.

Noone exects you to strip naked, cover yourself in red paint and dangle your dongle up and down outside old trafford shouting we're gonna win number 19 but acting like mystic Meg telling us that things are going to go wrong all the time is going to upset people who want to just be supportive, discuss what's happened in previous games and look forward to what could turn out to be a great season.

[Exiled_red]

i think he's bored being loaned out here there and everywhere. bring him home, the boy will shine

He's been loaned out 3 times hasn't he? As far as I've seen he's done well on the first one (in Scotland) and the others has been average. I would have thought he would have been glad of regular first team games to show what he can do as the reserves don't play too many games. Surely playing well regularly (at whatever level) is the only way to develop as a player and progress his career

[rage]

Better than Nunez and Pennant

and i'd have given the kid a go ahead of el zahr.

[rage]

Comparing Hammill who's been playing in a lower league to Riera who's been slogging it out with the best week in week out is just plain stupid rage, even by your standards. why is it stupid because i have an opinion?

It does seem that you take whichever stick there is available to beat Rafa and his decision making. You are not the only one in here doing that but you are at the apex of the list of those select few. i wasn't beating rafa over this, rather promoting a player thats come up through the system

Whatever you've said this season has been rebuked by what the team has achieved to date, be it in the league and the champions league. have you seen our games fredo? i go week in week out, why do you think the crowd booed even though we went top of the league?

It's time for you to take a much needed break from these forums dude and come out recharged next season, hopefully with a more positive mindset. i still want a new manager, infact if we sacked him now i reckon we'd be in with a fighting chance to win the league

joke!

[rage]

oh and Mr M i think anderson and hammill if played and given the opportunity over the last 18 months would at least have been as good as anyone we've brought in.

ok i take your point about riera being 'proven' but if given the chance these lads will perform. both utd and arsenal bring through far more players through the reserves than we do and i'd like to see that changed. we all talk about the need for an english spine in the team and these boys would add to that.

[Sarb]

oh and Mr M i think anderson and hammill if played and given the opportunity over the last 18 months would at least have been as good as anyone we've brought in.

ok i take your point about riera being 'proven' but if given the chance these lads will perform. both utd and arsenal bring through far more players through the reserves than we do and i'd like to see that changed. we all talk about the need for an english spine in the team and these boys would add to that.

Don't think anyone from the youth team has made it into the first team under Rafa. I might be wrong but if true it doesn't bode well for the long-term future of the club. EVeryone talks about how we're well set-up for the long-term, but the last few years don't show that at all.

I guess that's the difference when people say Arsenal haven't won anything whilst Rafa has been manager. Arsenal are well set for years to come with some promising youngsters coming through, the whole set up there is top class

As for us, well we're light years behind and very short-termist

[dww]

Don't think anyone from the youth team has made it into the first team under Rafa. I might be wrong but if true it doesn't bode well for the long-term future of the club. EVeryone talks about how we're well set-up for the long-term, but the last few years don't show that at all.

I guess that's the difference when people say Arsenal haven't won anything whilst Rafa has been manager. Arsenal are well set for years to come with some promising youngsters coming through, the whole set up there is top class

As for us, well we're light years behind and very short-termist

Yes but how long did that take to happen? About a decade. Expecting Rafa to have bought through young players in the time he has been here is unfair. Another problem has been the lack of control he has had over the academy according to some.

I also think if you factor in the fact that Rafa seems to deem anyone up to 23 as a young player his record of buying in young players such as Agger, Skrtel, Babel and even Mascherano and Torres is not so different from what Wenger did initially with the likes of Vieira etc.

I really don't think we are being short termist. I think that you are deliberately selecting evidence and ignoring the fact that under Rafa the standard of the reserves and youth system as judged by results in their leagues and cups has improved - which may well point to the fact that previously the young players he had to pick from were not of the required standard. I don't see that there is any point in promoting players to the first eleven if they are not of a suitable standard.

[Sarb]

Yes but how long did that take to happen? About a decade. Expecting Rafa to have bought through young players in the time he has been here is unfair. Another problem has been the lack of control he has had over the academy according to some.

I also think if you factor in the fact that Rafa seems to deem anyone up to 23 as a young player his record of buying in young players such as Agger, Skrtel, Babel and even Mascherano and Torres is not so different from what Wenger did initially with the likes of Vieira etc.

I really don't think we are being short termist. I think that you are deliberately selecting evidence and ignoring the fact that under Rafa the standard of the reserves and youth system as judged by results in their leagues and cups has improved - which may well point to the fact that previously the young players he had to pick from were not of the required standard. I don't see that there is any point in promoting players to the first eleven if they are not of a suitable standard.

We are being short-termist though. Yeah we have done well in the reserves and the youth academy of late, but none of those players have even been given a break in the first team.

I'm sure it didn't take Wenger 5 years to promote someone from his youth or reserve set up into a first teamer. And quite frankly our youth and reserve set up seems to be going backwards this year anyway

We don't give youngsters a chance and would rather spend a million here or a million there on some player who doesn't even get a regular game in their team. So what's the point?

[Sarb]

And don't forget the likes of El Zhar, Nemeth, Anderson etc are/were very highly rated/promising youngsters when they were bought for some very good money for that matter.
And I don't see what else some of them have to do to be given an opportunity

[Woobus]

oh and Mr M i think anderson and hammill if played and given the opportunity over the last 18 months would at least have been as good as anyone we've brought in.

ok i take your point about riera being 'proven' but if given the chance these lads will perform. both utd and arsenal bring through far more players through the reserves than we do and i'd like to see that changed. we all talk about the need for an english spine in the team and these boys would add to that.

So Rafa was right not to spend his money on the right side of midfield, why do you keep going on that he should have spent 20 million on a position you knew Hamill could fill?

[Woobus]

And don't forget the likes of El Zhar, Nemeth, Anderson etc are/were very highly rated/promising youngsters when they were bought for some very good money for that matter.
And I don't see what else some of them have to do to be given an opportunity

So you know these players are good enough but you want us to spend 20 million on a player who you wouldnt want to play as these players are great?

[Sarb]

So you know these players are good enough but you want us to spend 20 million on a player who you wouldnt want to play as these players are great?

Hold on, did I say that? I said these players deserve a chance to show what they can do, rather than buying average players to fill that position. And I actually said that we'd have been better buying a right winger than a striker because that is an area we lacked. Football is a squad game no? And I feel that Hammill, Anderson and El Zhar could have done just as good a job as Nunez, Pennant and Kuyt in that position.

And I never called them great either

[Sarb]

Yes but how long did that take to happen? About a decade. Expecting Rafa to have bought through young players in the time he has been here is unfair. Another problem has been the lack of control he has had over the academy according to some.

I also think if you factor in the fact that Rafa seems to deem anyone up to 23 as a young player his record of buying in young players such as Agger, Skrtel, Babel and even Mascherano and Torres is not so different from what Wenger did initially with the likes of Vieira etc.

I really don't think we are being short termist. I think that you are deliberately selecting evidence and ignoring the fact that under Rafa the standard of the reserves and youth system as judged by results in their leagues and cups has improved - which may well point to the fact that previously the young players he had to pick from were not of the required standard. I don't see that there is any point in promoting players to the first eleven if they are not of a suitable standard.

Liverpool Reserves slumped to their fifth defeat of the season after going down 1-0 at home to Blackburn Rovers.

Gary Ablett's men had hoped to build on their recent upturn in form against the Lancashire outfit but struggled to break down the visitors' stubborn rearguard and were beaten by Alan Judge's first-half spot-kick.

On what was a bitterly cold night at The Halliwell Jones Stadium the Reds created the first opening of note when Dani Pacheco fired a tame effort wide after a neat exchange of passes with Gerardo Bruna.

It would prove to be the highlight of the first 45 for Liverpool who dominated possession without finding the cutting edge to truly hurt the Rovers defence.

For their part, the visitors seemed happy to use the pace of their forwards on the counter-attack and gave a warning of their threat on 10 minutes when Marcus Marshall had a header ruled out for offside.

It was a brief respite for Liverpool and they fell behind seven minutes later when Emmanuel Mendy brought Aaron Doran crashing to the ground in the penalty area.

It was a poorly-timed challenge from the right full-back and his was duly punished in full when Alan Judge stepped up and lashed home the spot-kick to give the away side the lead.

The remainder of the half saw the home side continue to probe for the equaliser, but despite the presence of the returning Krisztian Nemeth in attack, the closest they came was when Mikel San Jose headed over Bruna's corner on the stretch.

It was a similar story in the second period with little goal match action at either end, although Pacheco almost gave the 455 fans who had braved the winter chill something to cheer when he forced a fine save out of Mark Bunn with an inventive chip.

With time running out Ablett summoned Jordy Brouwer from the bench and he almost provided Pacheco with an opportunity with a clever flick, but the little Spaniard saw his shot deflected to safety.

At the other end, Peter Gulacsi had to be alert to keep out Julio Santa Cruz as Rovers threatened to double their margin of victory.

Deep into injury-time the Reds nearly nicked a point but no-one was on hand to steer home San Jose's cut back after he was left unmarked at the far post.


Not going so well for the reserves this season is it