Lucas

[Craig_H]

If Lucas (based on his time so far at LFC) has been 'class', what's Gerrard? Or Alonso?

[Marky]

Great performance by him today but lets not go ott. To call him class etc already doesn't seem right.

[Elvis]

If Lucas (based on his time so far at LFC) has been 'class', what's Gerrard? Or Alonso?

World class.

[ronniedrew]

Great performance by him today but lets not go ott. To call him class etc already doesn't seem right.

spot on, the potential is there , but he has a long way to go before he can be called class, if everyone was fit for a big game, he wouldnt enter the reckoning for a starting position, and rightly so

[Craig_H]

spot on, the potential is there , but he has a long way to go before he can be called class, if everyone was fit for a big game, he wouldnt enter the reckoning for a starting position, and rightly so

How dare you? Unless you say Lucas is the bestest player in the world, ever ever, you're not a real fan

[Elvis]

I think there's some disagreement about the definition of class. To me, it's not about effort, or form or even goals. Lots of class players fail in the EPL because of the pace and strength required. But look at their first touch, their vision, the control of the weight of a pass, the ability to receive a ball whilst marked and keep possession - this is what the Madrid players will look like when they come to Anfield - because they are all class players. Several wouldn't make it in the agricultural EPL, but they are class nevertheless and we will need to be careful when we play them. Lucas would stroll into several top teams in Spain and Italy and be a god in France.

[wiw]

How can you say he will "never be good enough" ? He's a box to box midfielder who has played box to box in about 3 games for Liverpool. Rafa has clearly eased him into the role and must now feel he's ready. He was absolutely quality today and I'm delighted for him - the number of arseholes at Anfield that have already written him off as ****e and sigh whenever he does anything other than perfect get right on my tit. The fact he's improved in the face of this is testament to his mentality. He is 21 FFS

[ronniedrew]

I think there's some disagreement about the definition of class. To me, it's not about effort, or form or even goals. Lots of class players fail in the EPL because of the pace and strength required. But look at their first touch, their vision, the control of the weight of a pass, the ability to receive a ball whilst marked and keep possession - this is what the Madrid players will look like when they come to Anfield - because they are all class players. Several wouldn't make it in the agricultural EPL, but they are class nevertheless and we will need to be careful when we play them. Lucas would stroll into several top teams in Spain and Italy and be a god in France.

dont agree with that at all, lucas would not stroll into any top team in spain, he is not good enough going forward or in defence to get into the top 4 or 5 in spain

class is well above average and above good " class is permanent - form is temporary " and all that stuff"

he is a potenitally good player, lets not get carried away

[dww]

How can you say he will "never be good enough" ? He's a box to box midfielder who has played box to box in about 3 games for Liverpool. Rafa has clearly eased him into the role and must now feel he's ready. He was absolutely quality today and I'm delighted for him - the number of arseholes at Anfield that have already written him off as ****e and sigh whenever he does anything other than perfect get right on my tit. The fact he's improved in the face of this is testament to his mentality. He is 21 FFS

To be honest I really think he has always done a lot of things very well when he has played. The problem largely comes from peoples expectations of him. He is not a traditional English style attacking or defensive central midfielder. He is arguably undergoing a conversion from second volante in Brazilian parlance to a box to box type English player but I actually think that is a mis conception - he is simply adapting to England and will eventually settle to being a similar type of player to Gilberto Silva.

His defensive positioning is already very good. His problem in that regard is strength and the fact he uses his body poorly in any attempt to compensate for that. I think in the end we will start looking at players like him and Alonso as the sort of defensive midfielder we want rather than more limited players like Mascherano (who has the passing but, at the minute, not really the mentality to adapt the other way in my view) in the aim of moving to a Sacchi-esque model of whoever is on the ball is the playmaker, especially against weaker teams.

I've always liked Lucas and like you I find it odd that people, many of whom complain about Rafa's supposed short termist views of youth development, have written him off already.

[wiw]

To be honest I really think he has always done a lot of things very well when he has played. The problem largely comes from peoples expectations of him. He is not a traditional English style attacking or defensive central midfielder. He is arguably undergoing a conversion from second volante in Brazilian parlance to a box to box type English player but I actually think that is a mis conception - he is simply adapting to England and will eventually settle to being a similar type of player to Gilberto Silva.

His defensive positioning is already very good. His problem in that regard is strength and the fact he uses his body poorly in any attempt to compensate for that. I think in the end we will start looking at players like him and Alonso as the sort of defensive midfielder we want rather than more limited players like Mascherano (who has the passing but, at the minute, not really the mentality to adapt the other way in my view) in the aim of moving to a Sacchi-esque model of whoever is on the ball is the playmaker, especially against weaker teams.

I've always liked Lucas and like you I find it odd that people, many of whom complain about Rafa's supposed short termist views of youth development, have written him off already.

What's the difference between the second volante and a box-to-box midfielder? More defensive responsibilities for the latter? I agree with everything you say but I see him more as playing the role Xabi plays for Spain rather than Gilberto..I may be wrong about Gilberto but I didn't think he got forward very much?

I suppose if you simply think of him as a £5m Brazilian 21 year old you'd be expecting more, which seems to be the case with most people, but he's going to be some player for us..[dumb&dumber] I like him a lot [/dumb&dumber]

[wiw]

p.s Rafa isn't soft. He must have known he can pass and attack, but the defensive side was his weakness. He's eased him in and worked on it and now he's ready to step up and play box to box

[frank the tank]

i think lucas is going to be better than sissoko.....and when you consider that we sold sissoko for a profit almost as big as lucas' transfer fee, then happy ****in' days....

i agree that lucas is taking a long time to settle in but the signs are there that he can be a very very good player for us long term. Also, he cost 5m - or a danny higginbottam with a little extra, or a michael chopra with some change!!! Hardly going to break the bank if he doesn't work out and we sell him to someone like villareal for what we paid!!!!

Some people want us to be like arsenal in un-earthing the next superstars but patience is required by the fans as well. Lucas only cost about a million more than denilson for arsenal yet he has been given 3 seasons now to find his feet....... some fans need to look at the bigger picture....

[Vermilion]

Just been watching the highlights again & again & again.

Lucas..What a pass, What a ****in pass, to spot Gerrards run in the first place was something, but to then deliver the ball perfectly weighted directly into the path of an extremely fast moving Gerrard was sublime, perfection, and Stevie finished it with the aplomb it deserved, wonderful to see.

A bit like Keanes 2nd v Bolton...gives you a warm feeling inside followed by an uncontrollable fist clenching 'Get in there'.

[dww]

What's the difference between the second volante and a box-to-box midfielder? More defensive responsibilities for the latter? I agree with everything you say but I see him more as playing the role Xabi plays for Spain rather than Gilberto..I may be wrong about Gilberto but I didn't think he got forward very much?

I suppose if you simply think of him as a £5m Brazilian 21 year old you'd be expecting more, which seems to be the case with most people, but he's going to be some player for us..[dumb&dumber] I like him a lot [/dumb&dumber]

Second volante is generally more deep lying and more of a playmaker (although Lucas seems to have combined this with a goalscoring side in Brazil). I think it was the position that Lucas once refered to as 'second defensive midfielder' in an interview.

I remember Gilberto Silva linking in all over the pitch although possibly not running forward into the box in the way a traditional box to box player might be expected to. I have to say I haven't seen Xabi play enough for Spain (I assume you do mean Xabi and not Xavi) to comment and when I have he has been the deepest of the midfielders. Either way I think Lucas will end up based deep but with some license to join further up the pitch.

[the rev leeroy brown]

i'm not gonna jump on the kissing lucas' ass club after one good performance. newcastle were **** today....utter pish. don't get me wrong, lucas put in a good shift today. great pass for gerard goal and should have scored a couple himself. but it was only one game and he wasn't excatly tested by the opposition. untill the lad puts in a string of steady and assured performances against better teams i'll not be convinced he has what it takes.