The New Manager Thread

[Lecter]

The business we're in and the level we target being at doesnt allow even one shockingly bad season. Not even just one. Last season means nothing now.

By the time you dust yourself off from the 'just one season' of disgrace, you find yourselves too far behind to bridge the gap and be where you need to be.

If we'd got relegated this season, it'd still only be 'one season', but that wouldnt make it alright.

It's not just about this season for me, on the contrary.

If you'd look at the bigger picture instead of employing tunnel vision, you'd see the repercussions of this 'just one' disasterous season. The impact will be felt for many seasons to come.

I wouldnt say the state of the industry as a whole leaves no margin for error (even in one season)

However I would say that the state our business (in financial terms) is in leaves no margin of error

Part of any good business strategy would be to have some margin for error built into your plan

Whether thats one season without Champions League football or some other unforeseen circumstance

The problem with our business is that even if we secure Champions League football the club is perilously on the brink in financial terms

[einar]

I think the team which finished 2nd last year on 86 points (with a couple of changes) is plenty good enough to get into the top 4. By bridge the gap, i meant between us and 4th place, which i unfortunately expect to be more sizeable by the end of the season. If you think that team isnt good enough to finish 4th, then that's your call. I think it is.

As for the idea of if we "go into the next one with more determinaton and a slightly better group of players then one very bad season is not that bad" then i think you're missing my point.

If we **** up top four this season, City will most likely get it. If that happens, they will then have all they need to take us to the cleaners. They'll have the money AND CL football to attract quality players, which we cannot.

So if and when that happens, and City sign a few top players this summer, players who probably wouldnt have gone there before, because of no CL football, then it'll take us far more than determination and just a SLIGHTLY better group of players, to get back into the Champions League. A lot more.

That is why, despite this season being only one season, it is absolutely crucial and fundamental that we finiish in the top four. If we dont, the gap will become huge and this 'one' bad season will merely multiply in numerous bad seasons, and the upshot is, we will no longer be a top club. We will basically turn into Everton, a club with history and past glory, but a club that is forced to see 'top 6' as the best they can hope for.

Mediocrity, in other words.

I see what you mean. I do think however that it is far more important for any player joining us what the futur prospects are for the club, and that means new owners. So if we dont get into the CL now the inevitable is symply happening now instead of next season, or the one after that.

I don´t think any manager could work under these conditions and give us CL football every year.

[Lecter]

I thought it was clear to all that we are not going to bridge any gap on the pitch. It is in terms of money and a stadium that we need to "brigde the gap"

If we got new investment in the summer and a new stadium, we would have bridged the gap IMO.

If we have one very bad season and then go into the next one with more determinaton and a slightly better group of players then one very bad season is not that bad.

That would be sound reasoning but to get a slightly better group of players is going to take money

Which is something that is in short supply at a club that has qualified for the Champions League

Lord knows what the financial realities will be without that additional revenue

[einar]

So what does this season show then?

One great season, one shocking season and the rest all somewhere in the middle.

There isnt the overwhelming amount of evidence to suggest that Rafa can get us where we want to be, as you imply. Add to that the utterly painful-to-watch football, and for me, i think it's time for a change.

I acknowledge that you have your view, and i know i wont change your mind, which is fine. Likewise, other than a massive change in the most important currency known to football management (results), there's not really anything that's going to change mine either. The upshot of everything in football is results and ours are shambolic. That is primarily what i base my opinion on.

Again I don´t see how a reasonable man can see it this way. It was four seasons leading up to last season. And this season there is something going on that none of us really know what is. I just know that Rafa has not become a bad manager all of a sudden.

[Craig_H]

I see what you mean. I do think however that it is far more important for any player joining us what the futur prospects are for the club, and that means new owners. So if we dont get into the CL now the inevitable is symply happening now instead of next season, or the one after that.

I don´t think any manager could work under these conditions and give us CL football every year.

The difference of one season though, could be significant, in terms of the ownership. If we managed to get top four, by this time next year, the ownership might've been sorted and we wouldnt have the same issues.

This season currently looks like the last one where we'll have the necessary squad to get into the top 4 (without ownership change, i mean). By next season, it could be too late because City will be a very different animal.

[Craig_H]

Again I don´t see how a reasonable man can see it this way. It was four seasons leading up to last season. And this season there is something going on that none of us really know what is. I just know that Rafa has not become a bad manager all of a sudden.

What's unreasonable? I've been generous in fact, in not calling his first season a shocker, given that i am discussing league performance.

In his 6 seasons, if you count this one, we've had one brilliant league season, one terrible one (this year) and four others which fall somewhere in the middle, between brilliant and terrible.

What dont you agree with about that assessment?

He's not a bad manager, i'm not saying that. But he's ceased to be able to get our team performing and i dont see a way back from that. I find it interesting that you say 'there is something going on that none of us know about'. Could it just not be that the manager's got it terribly wrong, made poor decisions and this has led to our **** season?

You describe it as some bizarre mystery that nothing could possibly explain, but you seemingly dismiss the possibility that it's (partly, at least) simply a case of the manager making a series of mistakes.

[red g]

The difference of one season though, could be significant, in terms of the ownership. If we managed to get top four, by this time next year, the ownership might've been sorted and we wouldnt have the same issues.

This season currently looks like the last one where we'll have the necessary squad to get into the top 4 (without ownership change, i mean). By next season, it could be too late because City will be a very different animal.

i think this is a very improtant factor....when the yanks came over it looked like it was 30m in the banke very year guaranteed.......now all of a sudden it looks far from it!!!

[Lecter]

The difference of one season though, could be significant, in terms of the ownership. If we managed to get top four, by this time next year, the ownership might've been sorted and we wouldnt have the same issues.

This season currently looks like the last one where we'll have the necessary squad to get into the top 4 (without ownership change, i mean). By next season, it could be too late because City will be a very different animal.

I thought you believed that a new manager would get us 4th next season?

[einar]

What's unreasonable? I've been generous in fact, in not calling his first season a shocker, given that i am discussing league performance.

In his 6 seasons, if you count this one, we've had one brilliant league season, one terrible one (this year) and four others which fall somewhere in the middle, between brilliant and terrible.

What dont you agree with about that assessment? What is unreasonable IMO is that the 4 average seasons where the time any manager needs to build his team. If the team he took over had been in the CL for the 5 years before, your reasoning would be sound. But it was a time of building and therefor it is normal that it was not as good as last season.

He's not a bad manager, i'm not saying that. But he's ceased to be able to get our team performing and i dont see a way back from that. I find it interesting that you say 'there is something going on that none of us know about'. Could it just not be that the manager's got it terribly wrong, made poor decisions and this has led to our **** season? If you look at what he has done in the past with us and Valencia I would have to say no. Or at least very unlikely. Guys like him don´t just lose the plot in one summer.

You describe it as some bizarre mystery that nothing could possibly explain, but you seemingly dismiss the possibility that it's (partly, at least) simply a case of the manager making a series of mistakes.

I think it is partly Rafas foult that this season is what it is. And I have my theory about what has gone wrong now. But Rafa being the only reason, IMHO no way.

[Craig_H]

I thought you believed that a new manager would get us 4th next season?

As things stand now, with the current squads, i do.

[Craig_H]

I think it is partly Rafas foult that this season is what it is. And I have my theory about what has gone wrong now. But Rafa being the only reason, IMHO no way.

He inherited a side in the top four, not a midtable bunch of nobodies.

I never said rafa is the only reason, but he's made the job far far harder than it needed to be. I didnt say he's lost the plot, but he's reached the point where his tenure has run its course. It happens to nearly every manager, and it doesnt need the loss of the plot, to happen.

[einar]

He inherited a side in the top four, not a midtable bunch of nobodies.

I never said rafa is the only reason, but he's made the job far far harder than it needed to be.

So you don´t accept that he needed time to build his team. He should have challenged for the PL title from season one?

And as to your first statement, IMO the truth is somewhere in between.

[Lecter]

As things stand now, with the current squads, i do.

Surely you realise that Spurs, City & Villa arent going to rest on their laurels so its kind of irrelevant to discuss next season based on this seasons squads

This is why I have been saying I expected it to become increasingly difficult to get 4th unless the owners changed their modus operandi

I've resigned myself to not seeing 4th for a long time irrespective of who the manager is or isnt (unless the owners leave)

[Craig_H]

So you don´t accept that he needed time to build his team. He should have challenged for the PL title from season one?

And as to your first statement, IMO the truth is somewhere in between.

No i'm not saying he should've challenged for the PL from day one. But he had a side of top four quality, so he wasnt working with nothing.

As i said before, you have your view and i have mine. I didnt want to get into a back and forth over this, but i have

I'm off to the pub in a minute, so i'll come back to this later on.

[einar]

No i'm not saying he should've challenged for the PL from day one. But he had a side of top four quality, so he wasnt working with nothing.

As i said before, you have your view and i have mine. I didnt want to get into a back and forth over this, but i have

I'm off to the pub in a minute, so i'll come back to this later on.

Have fun.