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**Redshadow** · 15-05-10, 12:11 PM

Not really - No - My world is quite complex actually - The only simple thing about my world is my son - I love him SO much and would do ANYTHING for him - That IS black and white - Everything else is in shades of grey.

Never mind that though. Perhaps you agree with me on my last post? If we DID have potential investors - maybe they've Already been scared of by the level of vehemence and the sheer venom in the protests against H & G? And surely the incidents I referred to of direct action against Hicks' own person have not gone unnoticed? If that's the case then as I said, maybe the damage has already been done..........

**Tatterdemalion** · 15-05-10, 12:17 PM

The reason I think you're being simplistic about it is because you're viewing this as a football club. Well to you and me it is. To buyers it is a business, like it or not.

No one is going to spunk the best part of £1bn buying a business in the knowledge that if they put a foot wrong their customers will organise a buyers strike designed to crater the value of the business, violence or not.

Frankly I think a considerable amount of damage has been done already, but the situation is not irreparable, but you're just advocating more of the same.

I'm just as frustrated as you are, but a Fan's Soviet really isn't the answer. If you really feel an unquenchable desire to do something about it, why don't you get on board the idea of a fan's buy-out? You don't necessarily have to contribute cash, but you might be able to help with promotional work etc.

**Redshadow** · 15-05-10, 12:28 PM

Thanks for trying to understand mate; I DO appreciate you dropping the sarcasm of earlier and I'll answer you sincerely and as best I can now. I'm not viewing it just as a football club - Why do you think a lot of my ideas were targetting the likes of Hicks sponsors or the banks that are helping them? I KNOW that it will be more difficult for us to find the right kind of buyers if we're not just good little puppets who DON'T open our mouths and fight our owners every inch of the way.

However, at the same time - A 'fans Soviet' as you put it could STILL work with our owners IF we had the right ones - they could offer suggestions for improving things for the fans - bring difficulties to the owners attention and generally liase - Something like the Barcelona fans do. They have some form of a 'fans soviet' (whereby Every fan has a vote on the presidency and they ALL own a part of the club) and THAT works well no? And I see we most definitely DO agree on the fact that damage has already been done - Me personally? I think a few REAL buyers of the sort we really DO want have already looked at us but might just as easily have been quickly scared off. I believe that might have occurred due to a combination of fan militancy as we were discussing earlier and of course the utterly ridiculous asking price of Messr's Hicks and Gillette and even We can't argue that that is a REAL problem no?

As to myself? I might indeed get onboard with the idea of a fan's buyout IF I can find one that might work as I do feel the what did you call it? 'Unquenchable desire to do Something'' to remove them from the club however in a rather depressing indictment of the modern game (at least in Britain) I doubt I'd find one large enough to be properly effective and with the REAL heavy financial backing that would be compulsory for any sort of Proper bid. It seems that I might have to wait, frustrating as it is after all, and remain VERY patient along with my fellow fans (including of course your good self. You've clearly a LOT more patience than me - not that THAT'S hard LOL) until we encounter that knight on a shining charger (or more likely camel) who rides in amidst a tide of bank notes to save us after all. The good thing is I have NO doubt that someone like that WILL buy us eventually, the question is WHEN? I suspect not for a good while yet - or at least not until H & G's chances of making off with their ill-earned profit from us is fatally damaged which is almost the same thing. So it looks like we'll be stuck with the twin horrors for a little while longer more's the pity..................

**Tatterdemalion** · 15-05-10, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Redshadow View Post

I'm not viewing it just as a football club - Why do you think a lot of my ideas were targetting the likes of Hicks sponsors or the banks that are helping them?

So the new owners won't be able to get finance or sponsors...

We all feel a bit destructive now and then but destroying our club just to stop some-one else destroying it seems barmy.

ShareLiverpool needs momentum, if the same energy being ploughed into SoS was spent on shareliverpool, with the added bonus of attracting business people with contacts then maybe we might get somewhere.

As it is I firmly believe the club will be sold in the next few months, anyway. Just not very optimistic about being owned by a gaming entrepenuer or stroppy middle eastern prince.

Anyway, good talking to you, I hope you find a way of tackling your frustration on the issue.

**Redshadow** · 15-05-10, 12:44 PM

Why would the new owners use the same sponsors as Hicks and Gillette? I advocated targetting them to get them to remove their support from HICKS and Gillette is all. Besides if the new owners are anything like as rich as you and I think they may be or indeed they may HAVE to be to meet Hicks asking price. Do you really think they'll NEED sponsors? I doubt it.

As it is, you probably have the better of this particular argument and any action at this delicate juncture may indeed be counter-productive however I still maintain the point that such action MUCH earlier by us COULD have brought us to this pass a LOT quicker than the horrible, long endless 'death march'/trudge we embarked upon over the past 3 years to eventually get here.

I think if we'd Really gone after H & G properly a few years ago then you and I may Still be having this discussion but in 2008 or '09 BEFORE things reached critical mass ON the pitch as they have done. As it is, that ship has sailed and I doubt we'll ever know the truth of that one now...................

Good talking to you to mate - And I have a VERY easy way of tackling my frustration - I just look into my little son's eyes and I KNOW that football, sport the rest of isn't important - HE is and all my frustrations just melt away when I do that. He's what keeps me sane and grounded. It helps that he's a Lovely, charming adorable little boy of course and a little charmer LOL Not like his dad. But yes - When I'm with my son - My frustrations just disappear - Best stress reliever in the world - time with one's children!!! I can heartily recommend it. Anyways offski now - Take care my friend.

**-V-** · 15-05-10, 04:34 PM

I agree with RedShadow. Its time to get Violent. Lead the way shadow

**swishtz** · 15-05-10, 04:35 PM

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiGnRetNDEw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiGnRetNDEw[/ame]

**swishtz** · 15-05-10, 04:37 PM

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGwz7Jii60Q&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGwz7Jii60Q&feature=related[/ame]

**Shanks** · 15-05-10, 05:06 PM