Liverpool v Rabotnicki (2nd leg) build up

[Mattshark]

Does Degen fit that bill? Does Insua? Not nearly Dave. We don't have that standard of player unfortunately but we've still tried to play the formation. FAIL

And the DM player in the 442 is the player that isn't going forward. In other words it changes from time to time. Either of the 2 CM's can go forward and the other covers. No need for a DM in most matches but certainly against top sides I would play with 1.

I think the way Gladbach flew into counters against us with no DM is good evidence that this is simply not true.

[Craig_H]

You got any stats to back that up?

[SB]

I think the way Gladbach flew into counters against us with no DM is good evidence that this is simply not true.

That wasn't anything like our top side out there mate nor was anyone like fit so no proof there at all

[dww]

Does Degen fit that bill? Does Insua? Not nearly Dave. We don't have that standard of player unfortunately but we've still tried to play the formation. FAIL

But Barcelona, Chelsea, United, Arsenal, Real Madrid, Bayern and when they want to attack in a game Inter all do it and have been successful. So some individuals aren't up to doing a job (although in Insua's case I would argue he may mature to be so) and we had a bad season trying something I don't think that is a very stong argument against the system in general to be honest.

And the DM player in the 442 is the player that isn't going forward. In other words it changes from time to time. Either of the 2 CM's can go forward and the other covers. No need for a DM in most matches but certainly against top sides I would play with 1.

Is this the argument that says that Lampard and Gerrard can play together for England? Again, I think most teams find that a specialist DM (or at least setting one player that task) works better than giving them free reign. Can't think of a successful team that don't make some sort of nod to the concept of a four line team structure in this way.

[SB]

But Barcelona, Chelsea, United, Arsenal, Real Madrid, Bayern and when they want to attack in a game Inter all do it and have been successful. So some individuals aren't up to doing a job (although in Insua's case I would argue he may mature to be so) and we had a bad season trying something I don't think that is a very stong argument against the system in general to be honest.

How can you compare those sides with us though Dave? Johnson is the only wing-back type player that we have that could get into those sides

Is this the argument that says that Lampard and Gerrard can play together for England? Again, I think most teams find that a specialist DM (or at least setting one player that task) works better than giving them free reign. Can't think of a successful team that don't make some sort of nod to the concept of a four line team structure in this way.

I knew you'd mention SG & lamshade to base your arguement on. Stevie can play it OK but lampshade hates defending and won't defend. He's the weak link

[Mattshark]

That wasn't anything like our top side out there mate nor was anyone like fit so no proof there at all

And they are nothing like a top side either and they still flew in space with ease.

[Redspin]

In a 4231 formation you end up with 4 players as possible goal scorers but in a 442 formation you have 6 possible goal scorers. Wing backs get slated most of the time cause they can't defend. If they are expected to provide the width they are going to leave gaps at the back FACT. Why not just use your RM and LM to offer the width and let your defenders defend. Why do we suddenly need DM's , sometimes 2 of them? Some managers just love to try to reinvent the wheel.

Not so. With 4-2-3-1 one or more of the DMs can support the more advanced four when the team's on the attack, while the two wide men of the forward midfield three funnel back to help the full-backs when the team's on the defence, along with the two DMs. It's no coincidence that all the best teams - Germany and Spain's national sides being two excellent examples - use 4-2-3-1. It's not as inflexible as some on here seem to think. In fact the opposite is the case

As Rafa said once when asked about the system and why 99% of teams don't use twin strikers any more, "it's not about how many strikers you have in your team, it's about how many players you get in and around the box at the end of a move"

[dww]

I knew you'd mention SG & lamshade to base your arguement on. Stevie can play it OK but lampshade hates defending and won't defend. He's the weak link

On the first point - United have done it with the likes of Wes Brown at fullback. I'm not sure that the fullbacks employed by many of the teams are that great and Johnson and Aurelio are as good as most (actually I'm less of a fan of Johnson than you but he has obvious qualities).

The second point - I didn't mean to base my argument of the Gerrard and Lampard failure. I was merely trying to highlight that the sort of feeling that you can get one player to cover the other is often flawed even when you have two good players. Most teams use a central triangle as the base of their team formation these days because of this very difficulty in my opinion.

[Vermilion]

Roy Hodgson pays tribute to Joe Cole
LIVERPOOL boss Roy Hodgson paid tribute to Joe Cole after the midfielder impressed on his debut in last night's 2-0 victory over FK Rabotnicki at Anfield.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/

[Icon]

Anyone know of a highlights stream for this?

Wanna watch in bed...

[BobTheCharmer]

Anyone know of a highlights stream for this?

Wanna watch in bed...

YOU DIRTY HOMO WANKING ICON

[SB]

Not so. With 4-2-3-1 one or more of the DMs can support the more advanced four when the team's on the attack, while the two wide men of the forward midfield three funnel back to help the full-backs when the team's on the defence, along with the two DMs. It's no coincidence that all the best teams - Germany and Spain's national sides being two excellent examples - use 4-2-3-1. It's not as inflexible as some on here seem to think. In fact the opposite is the case

As Rafa said once when asked about the system and why 99% of teams don't use twin strikers any more, "it's not about how many strikers you have in your team, it's about how many players you get in and around the box at the end of a move"

If either of our two DM's crossed the half way line last year they'd get a nose bleed.

[SB]

[QUOTE=dww;1672584]

I didn't mean to base my argument of the Gerrard and Lampard failure. /QUOTE]

[Icon]

YOU DIRTY HOMO WANKING ICON

No energy for that - full of flu!