Liverpool v Rabotnicki (2nd leg) build up

[Craig_H]

is the game on tv tonight?

Im really looking forward to it now. I desperately want to see pacheco get some good game time though. I hope he isn't a sub.

itv4

[dww]

Roy would win over a few fans with that sort of gung ho attitude

I still think something not wholly dissimilar to this (albeit with Kuyt helping defend from the front) was one of the formations Rafa was looking to play at least as an alternative in recent seasons. A move to a 4-3-3 based system would seem to be behind the attempts to get Barry and the change in style of player from Alonso to Aquilani. It would also explain the determination to get the attacking fullbacks and wide attackers to tuck in.

He maybe slightly bottled it last season after the defensive problems getting it to work against Spurs and in other games early in the season when we had an unfit Gerrard and Lucas in for Aquilani.

I hope Roy looks at that as a possible evolution of the squad as I think it has the potential to get the most out of a lot of the players in the squad - Babel, Kuyt, Pacheco, Aquilani and Cole in particular.

We might need to move Gerrard back and make him take more defensive responsibility though. Or sacrifice one more natural attacking player for Lucas deeper (playing a formation similar to Spain at the World Cup).

[SB]

itv4

Have you put Fredo on ignore or something ?

[Scratch]

Cavalieri, Johnson, Carragher, Skrtel, Agger, Aurelio, Aquilani, Gerrard, Jovanovic, Lucas, Cole, Ngog, Spearing, Kelly, Eccleston, Pacheco, Darby, Insua, Rodriguez, Gulacsi, Shelvey

Cav
Kelly Skrtel Carra Aurelio
Gerrard Lucas
Cole Aqua Jova
N'gog

With Gerrard, Cole and Aurelio getting subbed after 60 mins or so.

[SB]

I still think something not wholly dissimilar to this (albeit with Kuyt helping defend from the front) was one of the formations Rafa was looking to play at least as an alternative in recent seasons. A move to a 4-3-3 based system would seem to be behind the attempts to get Barry and the change in style of player from Alonso to Aquilani. It would also explain the determination to get the attacking fullbacks and wide attackers to tuck in.

He maybe slightly bottled it last season after the defensive problems getting it to work against Spurs and in other games early in the season when we had an unfit Gerrard and Lucas in for Aquilani.

I hope Roy looks at that as a possible evolution of the squad as I think it has the potential to get the most out of a lot of the players in the squad - Babel, Kuyt, Pacheco, Aquilani and Cole in particular.

We might need to move Gerrard back and make him take more defensive responsibility though. Or sacrifice one more natural attacking player for Lucas deeper (playing a formation similar to Spain at the World Cup).

When Torres plays it always looks more of a 4 2 3 1 which effectively becomes a 451 when your in trouble ( which last year was most of the time).

I like the age old 442 with 2 strikers that don't need to track back and defend so much. There job is to just score the bloody goals, end of. If the defenders need help at the back, sell em and get defenders that can do their own job properly .

[dww]

When Torres plays it always looks more of a 4 2 3 1 which effectively becomes a 451 when your in trouble ( which last year was most of the time).

I agree that is how we looked and I think we reverted to that last season (when I think we lacked the players to play it well with Aquilani out injured, babel being **** and Riera a tosser). It is I feel a fine line with really the difference between the 4-2-3-1 and a more 4-3-3 based approach being subtle shifts from the wide players and the central midfielder closest to the striker (i.e. the 3 in a 4-2-3-1).

In fact the way I see it the change is more to mean that the wide players are more naturally free to come central rather than to always offer width and the more attacking central midfielder is asked to become the play maker (a la Xavi for Spain at the world cup).

I like the age old 442 with 2 strikers that don't need to track back and defend so much. There job is to just score the bloody goals, end of. If the defenders need help at the back, sell em and get defenders that can do their own job properly .

I honestly think that the 4-4-2 in the modern game is mostly a formation for containment and poor teams. You actually make the point that I think creates it's weakness in your post - two players who don't need to track back. Tracking back in a good team should be about not just defending but being in a position to offer options to start attacks from deep in my view.

[SB]

I agree that is how we looked and I think we reverted to that last season (when I think we lacked the players to play it well with Aquilani out injured, babel being **** and Riera a tosser). It is I feel a fine line with really the difference between the 4-2-3-1 and a more 4-3-3 based approach being subtle shifts from the wide players and the central midfielder closest to the striker (i.e. the 3 in a 4-2-3-1).

In fact the way I see it the change is more to mean that the wide players are more naturally free to come central rather than to always offer width and the more attacking central midfielder is asked to become the play maker (a la Xavi for Spain at the world cup).



I honestly think that the 4-4-2 in the modern game is mostly a formation for containment and poor teams. You actually make the point that I think creates it's weakness in your post - two players who don't need to track back. Tracking back in a good team should be about not just defending but being in a position to offer options to start attacks from deep in my view.

In a 4231 formation you end up with 4 players as possible goal scorers but in a 442 formation you have 6 possible goal scorers. Wing backs get slated most of the time cause they can't defend. If they are expected to provide the width they are going to leave gaps at the back FACT. Why not just use your RM and LM to offer the width and let your defenders defend. Why do we suddenly need DM's , sometimes 2 of them? Some managers just love to try to reinvent the wheel.

[dww]

In a 4231 formation you end up with 4 players as possible goal scorers but in a 442 formation you have 6 possible goal scorers. Wing backs get slated most of the time cause they can't defend. If they are expected to provide the width they are going to leave gaps at the back FACT. Why not just use your RM and LM to offer the width and let your defenders defend. Why do we suddenly need DM's , sometimes 2 of them? Some managers just love to try to reinvent the wheel.

It's about keeping the ball and controlling the areas it is in though. The teams that have been successful in the PL and Europe have all used three line team structures because of this and United, Arsenal and Chelsea despite encouraging fullbacks to push up have had excellent defensive records. You leave gaps but they are more rarely exposed if the 'wingbacks' are any good.

You can also argue that in a team dominating possession you always want to defend with three or four players. A 4-2-3-1 or related formation allows you to chose the three or four from a choice of six. If the players are all good on the ball this assists both attack and defence (again see Spain and Barcelona as prime examples of this).

I also don't buy that 4-4-2 necessarily means more goal threats. For most teams it reduces them to three - the strikers and whichever midfielder you allow to bomb forward to join. Teams have nearly always had DMs - it seems to me something of a myth that they are an invention of recent years necessitated by new formations.

[spud_gun]

Apologies if this has already been asked but is this game on the box this evening?

[dww]

apologies if this has already been asked but is this game on the box this evening?

itv4

[spud_gun]

itv4

Cheers

[souliv]

Setanta Ireland is showing it aswell

[Ryan_Derrick]

--------Cavalieri--------
Jonno-Carra-Agger-Fabio
-----Gerrard-Lucas-----
---Cole-Aquilani-Jova---
---------N'Gog---------

Subs: Gulacsi, Kelly, Insua, Maxi, Pacheco, Skertl, Spearing

Score: 4-0

[-V-]

Apparently the team for tonight is-

.............Cav
Kelly Carra Skrtle Johnson
........Gerrard...Lucas
Pacheco....Cole........Jova
..............Ngog

The formation itself is pure guesswork but thats the 11 expected out tonight

[little dave hedgehog]

Apparently the team for tonight is-

.............Cav
Kelly Carra Skrtle Johnson
........Gerrard Lucas
Pacheco Cole Jova
..............Ngog

The formation itself is pure guesswork but thats the 11 expected out tonight

could be 4-1-3-2?