Without Charlie Adam in the starting XI...

[RedReet]

I agree that you have to hope it is an informed judgement rather than blind loyalty. I was merely pointing out examples where many fans thought the loyalty for our manager was blind but over time their judgement was justified.

My post was more aimed at Birdman’s original point, but as you replied since I just added to yours.

There are a lot of people though that think that certain players get picked purely because of their price tag, but personally I don’t believe Kenny would be that stubborn and put his own desire to be proven right over the good of the club. Although I don’t agree with some of his choices, I’m certain that he believes they will pay off in the log run and eventually we’ll reap the awards. When he says ‘Wee Jay is just as important to the club as a £20m player’ I believe him and don’t think he’d let the cost of player influence his choice when picking his first 11.

[DannyMan2006]

He played very well with Lucas. Lucas will be in the first team next year. So I think Adam will once again be a handy player to have next year.

If we upgrade on him, then great. If we improve positions where we need a first teamer ahead of shipping Adam out, then I'd not complain.

We lack a top striker, and we are a striker down anyway so that'd be a big spend with no outgoing. We also need a top class player for on the right wing.

I'd improve those ositions over CM, where we have Gerrard & Lucas as first choice, and Adam & Spearing as back up.

[danperkins]

The thing with all of the above players you mention is that they had recognisable raw materials which one could always see, despite not always performing to the 'acceptable' level. With Charlie Adam, all I tend to see are fundamental flaws in positioning, mobility and awareness that I'm not sure will be overcome. Rangers didn't let him go for no reason.

He certainly did well with Blackpool, and that stint showed that he can do well within a certain defined set-up where his co-midfielders cover for his flaws, but at Liverpool i suppose more is expected, in that we need players to be at a level that they can produce no matter what the set-up.

I wouldn't sell him though as he's handy to have in the squad and his resale value would be **** all anyway.

To be fair to him though he has been practically playing as a deep lying holding midfielder & unfortunately for Charlie his assets as a footballer are in no way,shape or form equipped to deal with this position. As you said positioning,mobility,awareness and tackling aren't exactly his strong points.

So as much as his performances have annoyed me at times, IMO he'lll prove to be a very productive and useful squad player when used in his proper position, which is having absolutely no defensively responsibilities whatsoever. At Blackpool he pretty much had free role and was very productive for them, but they often got carved up in midfield too. We seen the best out of Charlie Adam when Lucas was behind him and for a time they looked to be formed a nice solid partnership. Unfortunately for us we've got so many injuries,suspensions etc in the CM area, that we have been forced to play certain players together that throw of the balance in the CM and in turn puts our defense under pressure.

EDIT: Also agree that his set pieces have been a massive let down.

[Lecter]

Adam has 11 assists. In a team which hasn't been scoring many. The next best assister in the squad is Suarez with 5, behind im is Kuyt on 3. Some might argue that represents a raw material on which to work.

.

I'm sure I read recently that Bellamy was our 3rd most creative player (in terms of assists)

[Eric Swindler]

To be fair to him though he has been practically playing as a deep lying holding midfielder & unfortunately for Charlie his assets as a footballer are in no way,shape or form equipped to deal with this position. As you said positioning,mobility,awareness and tackling aren't exactly his strong points.

So as much as his performances have annoyed me at times, IMO he'lll prove to be a very productive and useful squad player when used in his proper position, which is having absolutely no defensively responsibilities whatsoever. At Blackpool he pretty much had free role and was very productive for them, but they often got carved up in midfield too. We seen the best out of Charlie Adam when Lucas was behind him and for a time they looked to be formed a nice solid partnership. Unfortunately for us we've got so many injuries,suspensions etc in the CM area, that we have been forced to play certain players together that throw of the balance in the CM and in turn puts our defense under pressure.

EDIT: Also agree that his set pieces have been a massive let down.

He certainly does have attacking attributes and if he could play, as you say, without any defensive duties, he'd do ok - if fact as Dww pointed out he has 11 assists, mostly arising from the time pre-Lucas' injury, if I'm not mistaken.

I just don't know if you can afford to often use a player that is so limited on the back foot as CA appears to be.

[Craig_H]

I'm not a fan (of Adam) but you would have thought the number of people who have had to eat their words about Skrtel, Lucas, Maxi and Kuyt there would be a greater level of acceptance that sometimes you have to be loyal stick with players to get the best out of them. It's a fine line and I suspect you have to back someone 100% until you don't and Kenny has at least given all his signings a fair chance and of late we are seeing much improved versions of Carroll and Downing at least.

really good post mate. We've seen it happen loads before & a year's worth of experience at a new club can make the world of difference. Not always but sometimes. It may not happen but it wouldn't be radical if, with a full year under their belts, the likes of Henderson, Carroll, Downing & Adam happen to produce vastly improved levels of performance next season.

You'd think we will buy in the summer so they will no longer be the new boys with attention, focus & pressure on them & they may surprise us & excel in those circumstances.

[Mattshark]

He certainly does have attacking attributes and if he could play, as you say, without any defensive duties, he'd do ok - if fact as Dww pointed out he has 11 assists, mostly arising from the time pre-Lucas' injury, if I'm not mistaken.

I just don't know if you can afford to often use a player that is so limited on the back foot as CA appears to be.

I would agree with that. He can be useful as a sub, but his all round game is far too limited. I think we need better quality for starting and cover in midfield.

[dww]

I'm sure I read recently that Bellamy was our 3rd most creative player (in terms of assists)

I was working off the Fantasy PL stats. I should have made that clear. No idea how cup performances impact this.

[Mattshark]

I was working off the Fantasy PL stats. I should have made that clear. No idea how cup performances impact this.

In the PL Adam has 6 assists, Suarez 3 and Bellamy and Enrique have 2.
(according to ESPN soccernet)

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team/_/id/364/liverpool?cc=5739

[Lecter]

I was working off the Fantasy PL stats. I should have made that clear. No idea how cup performances impact this.

http://lfcstats.co.uk/20112012playerassists.html

Bellamy got a few assists in the Cups as well I think (at Chelsea he got 2 I think)

[RedReet]

FPL award assists if a player is fouled and the resulting set-piece is scored. Would anyone else consider these as assists and are they widely accepted as that or just in this game?

Seeing as we haven’t scored too many of either, I doubt Adam has benefited anyway.

[Mattshark]

FPL award assists if a player is fouled and the resulting set-piece is scored. Would anyone else consider these as assists and are they widely accepted as that or just in this game?

Seeing as we haven’t scored too many of either, I doubt Adam has benefited anyway.

It is just FPL, I don't think others accept that. it is quite a disparity between Adam's assists between them and ESPN.

[RedReet]

ESPN aren't the most accurate either TBF, I've seen a few discrepancies in their stats in the past.

I think getting an assist for being fouled for a free kick is a ridiculous assist to give for anything.

[Craig_H]

ESPN aren't the most accurate either TBF

One of their main co-commentators cant even say 'penalty' properly.

[Mostar]

Adam is a squad player and that's the price we paid for one.

Aye.

Adam was never brought in to the be the starter and problem is htat injuries to Lucas and Stevie made him play much more than he should have.

People keep forgeting what type of squad we had last year and he is an improvement and even though he hasn't played well lately imo doesn't deserve to get so much stick.