Harvey Elliott

[Shaggy]

Right, I'm not having a go at the kid just to get that out of the way.

I'm just wondering what exactly his role is in the team because I haven't the foggiest. I don't know here his best position is but I can say with great certainty that it is not his current one. Where does he fit in? He's good technically and can learn but he is so weak and slow.

For me, at the moment he should not be a starter. He is not tactically or physically right to play here he has been playing. Whether or not he is the right long term option for us remains to be seen but as it stands he should be nowhere near that starting line up.

Maybe it's just where we are at as a team and squad in general and it's not his fault but it is the reality of our situation imo.

I think the issue is his lack of physicality - he’s not fast and he’s not strong. Other players have managed to overcome this by being exceptional at passing or dribbling or whatever.

I’m not sure what the answer is for Harvey… he’ll get stronger as he’s older but does he have the range of passing and eye for a pass which will overcome his physical limits?

He doesn't belong in our midfield three, that's almost certain at this stage.

Agree with all this. It's a problem and a noticeable one whenever he starts.

His best bet is probably back-up for Mo for now. Plenty of ability but physically lacking so much he shouldn't be anywhere near our midfield.

[labourRed]

He doesn't belong in our midfield three, that's almost certain at this stage.

[Rich]

I think the issue is his lack of physicality - he’s not fast and he’s not strong. Other players have managed to overcome this by being exceptional at passing or dribbling or whatever.

I’m not sure what the answer is for Harvey… he’ll get stronger as he’s older but does he have the range of passing and eye for a pass which will overcome his physical limits?

[danperkins]

Right, I'm not having a go at the kid just to get that out of the way.

I'm just wondering what exactly his role is in the team because I haven't the foggiest. I don't know here his best position is but I can say with great certainty that it is not his current one. Where does he fit in? He's good technically and can learn but he is so weak and slow.

For me, at the moment he should not be a starter. He is not tactically or physically right to play here he has been playing. Whether or not he is the right long term option for us remains to be seen but as it stands he should be nowhere near that starting line up.

Maybe it's just where we are at as a team and squad in general and it's not his fault but it is the reality of our situation imo.

[rudedog]

He had the best pass completion stats out of all our players.

[Mr Pink]

He did really well and think he’s gonna be a world class midfielder… I’m not trying to take from his performance- but I think it’s a big help when all the world class stars in the team are playing to their potential… van dijk, Trent, Fabinho & Salah have all been poor for a lot of the games so far this season. When they’re not turning up, it must make it so much harder for the likes of Elliott, carvalho, nunez etc to come into the team and settle in. They were all (except Trent) back to their usual world class standards on Sunday, which must make it so much easier to come in and just focus on playing a support role.

[Fosterbloke]

He used the ball intelligently and didn't panic. Just needs a little more composure around the box and he'll be great!

[danperkins]

He really put a shift in an helped Milner down the right side.

[Rich]

He did really well - the formation helped him, with Fab a little further over to the right.

[dizzycat]

Proper solid game yesterday and the experience of going through the teams run of bad form early in the season will be of benefit in the long run. Be interesting to see of he really pushes on now.

[Harv]

Felt like a coming of age performance yesterday. When I saw his name on the teamsheet I feared the worst, tbh. Not in terms of his quality on the ball, just his defensive work and that him and Milner would get ripped apart.

He was ****ing outstanding in every facet of the game. Well done Harvey

Thanks mate. Tried my best, couple of loose touches, but feel like im finding my spot in the side.

[Shaggy]

Felt like a coming of age performance yesterday. When I saw his name on the teamsheet I feared the worst, tbh. Not in terms of his quality on the ball, just his defensive work and that him and Milner would get ripped apart.

He was ****ing outstanding in every facet of the game. Well done Harvey

[danperkins]

Don't think anyone is suggesting he looks to have the pace to be an out and out winger though.


Playing as a wide playmaker/RAM/RM or whatever term gets used nowadays requires less pace though, as would a central AM or maybe even a support striker style role. Creativity and acceleration over three to five yards is probably more important there along with the sort of skillset to play quick and clever balls ahead of the guys looking to make a run.


Time will tell of course, but he does look to potentially have a lot of the tools needed to develop what is needed for one of the less pace/strength orientated roles.

Of course against a good team, let alone a really good one like City, I do not want to see him in either the RCM or RW role.

Time will tell, he's still young and it might take time to see what his best position is but I'm not getting carried away. Good potential, see how he goes.

[Venton]

Oh, he definitely has time on his side, I have no worries about him adapting or his overall skill level. I do worry about the overall mobility of that midfield though. We never really replaced Wijnaldum's dynamism - if Fab is out we pretty much rely on Thiago, Henderson and Elliott, and that doesn't feel vigorous enough to sustain our press to me, or to get back when we lose the ball high up (which we do).

[Doc_Piptorious]

You have to be able to get back to cover the defence sharpish in Klopp's system though. Not sure he has the legs to do that, I've noticed he's been late back a couple of times. That might just be getting used to the system though.

Two things on that.

One is that it is probably more a case of him, if used in an advanced attacking/creative role like the AM role, getting fully adjusted to the triggers for our press and getting in synch with the other guys.

Guys like Thiago and Keita (when he is not dead) are not fast guys but can both trigger a press and react fluidly to a trigger.

Certain positions, within the systems Klopp has utilised to date, seem to need pace more than others especially defensively be it a passive defensive move or an aggressive one like a team press.


The second thing is looking at him and saying Klopp system.

Yes we still have a bit over three and a half years of Klopp to go, but when Klopp goes he will still be only 22 or 23, so still very much in that stage of not being fully developed and having up to then more years ahead of him so as much as he needs, as the bit player he currently is, to be adapting to playing within a Klopp system, he is going to have far more years playing within someone else's system.


And am going to cheat now and turn my two things into three.


The third one is that our system/set up this season is missing the press and the ability to trigger that press more due to the drop off in physicality and/or perfromance of more senior players who should have more defensive responsibility and trigger starting duties than it is down to an offensive minded 19 year old.

Elliot is responsible for some of the gaps in the team this season, however imo he is also slightly absolved as he does not say where he plays and he very obviously needs coaches honing his instincts on the training ground and maybe more importantly some senior players coaching him ore through games at times.

Only thing I am 100% sure of though is that he is a 19 year old getting his first proper run of games in our first team and he is playing within a team that is creaking and lacking fluidity.

I would be more concerned about Henderson, VVD, TAA, Robertson (prior to his injury) and at times Salah (though his underlying stats suggest he has not dropped off that much, just that he is playing in a misfiring team)

Throw in Fabinho looking fatigued, and we have most of the guys we called mentality monsters all looking either out of sorts or making more uncharactersitic errors than we are used to seeing.

Add in all of our back up midfield players being out injured or being unavailable for whatever reason and it is a perfect storm of lack of form, physical decline and lack of cover.

Elliot (and Carvalho for that matter) get a pass in my eyes. Yes both cause gaps and I tend to cringe when I see both in the same starting line up. But both are kids and need a season at least, maybe two, to grow into the team and to gain the experience needed to be less green positionally and less green with regards to becomeing part of the team movemnets at a competitive level.