Lucas

[I, Ravel Morrison]

When Gerrard play in the position he now plays in then what he must do is to play the easy game, short passes instead of long ones almost all the time. That is what a DM do.

If the DM don't do that then the passing game fells apart. He is the one that build up the attacks, he is the one setting the tempo.

Gerrard is our playmaker but he has never been a very good playmaker. He want to do to many fancy things.

Gerrard is a fantastic player in the attacking half but not nearly as good in the defensive half.

If Gerrard does this, what does Lucas do? What's his role then? A pure defensive shield?

[RichC]

To many long ball attempts, which I don't think helps our game in general.

Sick of the Hollywood passes from him tbh, we need him to probe and find the smart pass.

Problem is he's the only one in midfield capable of it really.

I wonder if we need to look to bring Allen back into the side

[Chazza]

Don't forget Gerrard started last season poorly and got much better as it went on.

He doesn't look right/fit to me at the minute.

[Arn]

If Gerrard does this, what does Lucas do? What's his role then? A pure defensive shield?

Lucas is the best ball winner and tackler in the league.

He should be the one that do what Gerrard should do, play the easy game and cover the back four. Play the easy game.

IMO Rodgers play both of them in the wrong position. He should let Lucas build up the play and play the easy game, not Gerrard.

Gerrard should do what Lucas do now, play the more difficult game, that means more difficult passes, longer passes but higher up the pitch.

I really don't understand why Rodgers is trying to copy the Xabi Masch partnership when we don't have the players to do it. Lucas isn't a Masch and Gerrard isn't a Xabi.

Get the best out of Lucas and Gerrard instead. Let them play a game that get the best out of them.

[Maxiedge]

Yep I agree that Rodgers has got this Gerrard ans Lucas partnership all wrong. It's my first major quip with Rodgers as I think he's done very well so far but this is getting a bit silly now. They've never worked and they never will. Have we ever said after a game "Gerrard and Lucas linked up really well together" ?

Actually, it's more to do with Gerrard being a maverick more than anything else. He throttles his midfield playing partner as he wants total control and hence I would play him further forward. I would play 2 out of Allen, Henderson and Lucas in midfiled and I'd either play Gerrard as number 10 (while Coutinho is injured) or wide right of the attacking 3. Also, he'll help us win a few headers from long balls because at the moment, I'd say we're the worst side in the league in retaining possesion after a goal kick, long ball, clearance etc...

[danperkins]

The passing ability of our midfield is shockingly poor. If Gerrard is not on his A game, nobody else offers anything.

Also, our midfield con not hack a high intensity game.

Seen it last season & doesn't seem to have changed this one.

[danperkins]

Personally i've always liked Gerrard as close to the goal as possible. People keep saying about he hasn't got the legs and they are probably right.. also he tries to many hollywood passes... and they probably right again.

For me what he has, his biggest asset is the way he can strike a ball. It makes sense to me to have him as close to goal as possible where he can take shots, less donkey work & pick smart passes through opposition defences.

Henderson is a worker and although IMO we need better... whilst Coutinho is out:

--Lucas---Henderson--
--------Gerrard--------

IMO is the way to go. Two workers in midfield, we need that intensity in there even though we have no physical presence at the moment.. and Gerrard dictating the game high up the pitch.

[Red_Polo]

Agree with the seeming consensus on here; Gerrard's style in possession is too high risk and direct for him to excel in his current deeper role. Put him further forward where his assets will bear fruit.

[danperkins]

Agree with the seeming consensus on here; Gerrard's style in possession is too high risk and direct for him to excel in his current deeper role. Put him further forward where his assets will bear fruit.

definitely playing to his strengths.. Rodgers doesn't seem to trust anyone else enough to try to dictate the play in that deeper role. Henderson's not a great footballer but he is a worker & would do for the time being.

[RedReet]

I know Lucas is bullet proof on here but IMO he hasn't been the same player since his injury lay off.

Nobody is disputing that he's hit those heights yet, but he's still been playing consistently well.

You risk the wrath of RedReet at your peril.

He gives out to me no matter what i post so **** it

I don't think he is bullet proof here mate. I recall last year me and a fair few posters pointing it out to others that he is not our saviour or messiah and when he did return he was gash but that was excusable due to the long lay off. He has shown some signs of improvement in the odd match. But when he comes across or faces someone more physically and powerful in the middle he rarely turns up. Could be a fear factor or mental weakness as he was not like that before, he could have doubts about weather his knee is upto it or if can come through a challenge.

As always, Lucas won possession back more than any of these physically imposing midfielders yesterday, and comparing his 95% pass accuracy to Wanyama's 70%, I think I know who'd I'd prefer in my team.

He's too busy following all the Rafa related posts and has Google translate on overdrive as he scours the Turkish based sites for references to kuyt.

Absolutely hilarious.

But I was busy in the Yeovil forum FWIW.

He was non existent for me today although his midfield partner was utter dross today as well

I thought him and Henderson were our two best players first half, but got carried away with booze and anger to pay as much attention second.

He and Gerrard were lost and clueless today with no idea of who to pass too. I find it hard to blame individuals, I think the fault was more of a collective fault today.

We were always going to struggle as soon as we seen 4 CB's, especially when we lost the creativity of Coutinho.

this then has to come back on the managers shoulders.

i know that several first choices were not available but preparation of the team and changing it if needed are down to him.

I mean this as an expression of my ignorance and a blind spot I've got about football - no matter what amazing stats I see and read about Lucas, I just can't get on board with the extraordinary praise he gets eg he's close to being the best DM in the world. He's always looked sluggish - even more so at the moment after his big injury - and lacking in either the dynamism or the passing range I associate with a midfielder. He always looks to me to be at his best chasing back after people but never facing the play. I'm sure loads will tell me how wrong I am. I'm not bashing him after a loss - I'm saying I just don't see what loads of others apparently can.

We're lacking someone dynamic and purposeful in midfield.

Was this a problem when we were scoring goals for fun last year and keeping plenty of clean sheets too? Likewise we played some great football in Kenny's first 6 months with Lucas involved.

Someone said here (possibly Bob) that he plays the same whether we win, lose or draw. I don't see this as a criticism and he is a very consistent player and if everyone was as consistent as him we would be unbeatable. Unfortunately for us they aren't, so whenever other players in the team don't perform, Lucas inexplicably gets most of the blame.

Lucas the man I like, Lucas the footballer I could take or leave. I've always been unconvinced he brings enough to the party. Pre injury he looked great for a month or so. Immense even. But he failed to hit the heights way too often for me. He's a stats man wet dream. His passing ability is limited to sideways and backwards usually 3 or 4 yards at most and praise where its due he has to be one of the all time best passers at this distance there's ever been. Utd have won the league on a regular basis without the need for such a player. Yet it seems we must have someone like this. Oh well, hopefully his form picks up soon.

Yet before Coutinho got injured, Lucas had passed the ball to him more than any other player in our team this year, but obviously Coutinho must have been playing CB and there is no way he could have been ahead of Lucas.

But that's just another stat, what does that prove? Why go on physical evidence when we can rely on the perception of completely objective football fans who absolutely love Lucas.

I get that and that's great. I just remain unconvinced that you have to have a player like this in your team. Other players can chase opponents, win the ball, pass and then look for it back to do something positive. I guess its all about how you set up. In a Rafa formation its a must. In a Ferguson formation it wasn't. There are always different ways of setting up.

Time will tell.

You should tell Barca to get rid of Busquest then, he'll never score enough for them and how the like of Macsherano or Makele made careers for themselves, I'll never know.

So we're a player light from an attacking sense then. In that he never gets involved.

What annoys me is the fact I've seen him score from range before yet he doesn't attempt to at all. I know its not his job but Christ an extra two goals from him may make the difference in a tight game. I may be wrong and this view mast be fanciful, but I think every outfield player should be looking to score at least once a season.

Our whole midfield needs to be getting more goals. I just don't think they get in or around the box enough. That has to be the way we set up.

If I hear this whole its not his job to do this I'll ****ing scream. He's supposed to win the ball and pass it to a better player, yawn. In our team that for years has been relatively ****, its no good having such a player. The players around him aren't special enough. We need all midfielders to be competent in contributing to the game in a positive way. He plays the same way whether we win lose or draw. He can't raise the tempo. He can't influence a result.

The STATS would suggest he clearly does.

And he did have a shot yesterday.


**** me, I'm getting too old for this ****.

[baitman]

we had four centre backs, sakho and toure were never going to run like wing backs, although toure had one brave attempt.
we then play two defensive midfielders in front of a fairly static back four. the middle of the pitch was given to southampton.
head scratching tictacs

[Norbs]

Was this a problem when we were scoring goals for fun last year and keeping plenty of clean sheets too? Likewise we played some great football in Kenny's first 6 months with Lucas involved.

Here's the thing. Lucas continued to play his usual game yesterday and yet gets the blame for our lack of creativity. He's scored 1 goal in 150 games, we really ought to know what we're going to get out of him by now.

Gerrard resorted to long balls because we had no regular full backs on the field. It must've been easy for Pocohontas to set his team up knowing that nothing was going to come down the wings and that our midfield pair would rarely get past the half way line. We were totally static

[RedReet]

Here's the thing. Lucas continued to play his usual game yesterday and yet gets the blame for our lack of creativity. He's scored 1 goal in 150 games, we really ought to know what we're going to get out of him by now.

Gerrard resorted to long balls because we had no regular full backs on the field. It must've been easy for Pocohontas to set his team up knowing that nothing was going to come down the wings and that our midfield pair would rarely get past the half way line. We were totally static

People used to make the same argument against Mascherano too, ignoring the fact that when he played not only was our win percentage higher, the amount of goals scored was much higher too.

It's very easy being an armchair manager, drop a DM for an AM and of course you'll win easily and score a bucket load of goals.

[badpiggy]

I dunno. If we're going to buy into this whole Lucas is a brilliant DM lark, I just can't see how he's anywhere near either Didi or Alonso as top DMs. Or say Makalele or Essien were for Chelsea. He gets a lot of the ball because he's a midfielder but I just can't get used to this whole notion of an undynamic skillfree midfielder playing 100 short passes being essential.

[Mattshark]

I dunno. If we're going to buy into this whole Lucas is a brilliant DM lark, I just can't see how he's anywhere near either Didi or Alonso as top DMs. Or say Makalele or Essien were for Chelsea. He gets a lot of the ball because he's a midfielder but I just can't get used to this whole notion of an undynamic skillfree midfielder playing 100 short passes being essential.

Apart from the breaking up of play and covering the back line. Not sure what else you are expecting him to do?