Lucas

[danperkins]

Or

Lucas Henderson
Suarez Gerrard Moses
Sturridge

Would be our best setup at the moment IMO

[DeeTheDog]

I'm more than willing to be proven wrong but I just can't understand the concept of the centrality of a non scoring, non game changing, non crossing, short passing midfielder regardless of what it allows full backs to do.

Non game changing? Check the difference in points won with Lucas in the team and without.

We have conceded three goals in five games, all of which have been conceded after making two changes to the back. None of the three can be attributed in any way to Lucas, yet why waste a good scapegoat?

[badpiggy]

I'm not scapegoating Lucas at all. I'm just - perhaps ignorantly - uninspired by the functionality of his role. You're more than entitled to jump out of your seat joyously screaming at the TV as he brilliantly chases and fouls an opponent and/or completes yet another 5 yard pass sideways to Enrique.

[RedReet]

Again it comes back to relying on him too much for that, he's not 25 anymore.

Lucas does need to offer more with our attacking play that or we need to look at changing the midfield around to suit our style of play better.

agree. he should and can step up to provide more threat going forward.

So how many goals and assists did Joe Allen get playing the same role last year? How many did Leon Britton get playing the same role when Rodgers was at Swansea. ZERO!

So maybe then the criticisms shouldn't be at the player, but the system the manager is playing. Lucas has shown in Brazil and against Benfica when played as an AM that he's got goals in him, but his role in the team is not to score goals but to win the ball and keep possession at all times which he does better than anyone else in the league.

The Gerrard Lucas axis is not working as a defensive shield or as means to set the tempo in games. I am not sure why as each on their own bring plenty of positives.
One or both needs to drop out or Gerrard needs to be further up the pitch because he is still IMO the best pure finisher at the club and a great striker of the ball from the edge of the box.
Lucas for all his ability to break up the opposition play needs to be able to make an offensive forward pass at least some of the time otherwise we would have been better with keeping Momo.
I wish Allen was a wee bit stronger. I was so impressed when he first went in but I think he must have just lost his mojo.

That's just crap. People said the same about Allen in that role until someone actually analyzed his passes in depth and proved the majority went forward. Watch when Coutinho comes back how many of Lucas' passes are to him. If a player is in space ahead of him, Lucas will pick him out, if not, he'll look elsewhere for a free man whether they are beside him or behind him, as he should do.

[Reece]

To me, it's actually vital that Lucas (or whoever is playing that pure DM role) doesn't get too involved in an attacking sense.

Rodgers' preferred system (from what I've been able to tell - I'm certainly no formation/tactical expert ) is to utilise the full backs as an attacking threat, meaning the two centre backs split and move to the side somewhat. This then requires the DM to drop into the space they vacate (in terms of zones if not actual position). From there he can gather the ball and move it on to someone else of a more attacking nature.

That's just my reading of it though and I might be completely wrong

Edit: Oh, and I can't believe people still go for this "Lucas never passes forward" stuff

[RedReet]

They should take the midfield out of defensive midfielder, give them a libero type label.

[Reece]

They should take the midfield out of defensive midfielder, give them a libero type label.

"Defensive er"?

[RedReet]

[Fernandinho]

To me, it's actually vital that Lucas (or whoever is playing that pure DM role) doesn't get too involved in an attacking sense.

Rodgers' preferred system (from what I've been able to tell - I'm certainly no formation/tactical expert ) is to utilise the full backs as an attacking threat, meaning the two centre backs split and move to the side somewhat. This then requires the DM to drop into the space they vacate (in terms of zones if not actual position). From there he can gather the ball and move it on to someone else of a more attacking nature.

That's just my reading of it though and I might be completely wrong

Edit: Oh, and I can't believe people still go for this "Lucas never passes forward" stuff

I agree with this somewhat, but when he does this we literally have a shocking lack of cover through midfield. Gerrard can't get around the middle of the pitch like some of the classic 'all action' midfielders (or a younger Gerrard) and the attacking 3 will often be inside or around the box, once it comes out its just Gerrard vs any players breaking from the other team.

I think this is why we have seen it the other way around a lot lately with Gerrard being the one to step into the back 3 and Lucas to be covering. While Lucas isn't especially quick he is probably more mobile than Gerrard.

[cream]

We really need Alan to come good so we can play him and Gerrard just ahead of Lucas.

[Arn]

Despite the Reds' unexpected 1-0 loss against Southampton at Anfield on Saturday, statistics provided by our partner Opta show that Lucas Leiva was an impressive performer in the centre of midfield.

The Brazilian left the field with a passing accuracy of 95.6 per cent, a higher figure than any other player on the pitch; his distribution was mainly short too, with just 6.7 per cent of his 45 passes sent long.

Going forward, Lucas unleashed one shot at goal from outside the penalty box - which was on target - and won one foul from the opposition without conceding any for his team.

Our No.21 was also vigilant defensively, completing four interceptions during the 90 minutes; that figure topped the rankings for either team once more.

The 26-year-old attempted four tackles against the Saints and was victorious in 75 per cent of his challenges, and made one clearance on his side's behalf.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/late...mpts-to-unlock

[Tee]

Despite the Reds' unexpected 1-0 loss against Southampton at Anfield on Saturday, statistics provided by our partner Opta show that Lucas Leiva was an impressive performer in the centre of midfield.

The Brazilian left the field with a passing accuracy of 95.6 per cent, a higher figure than any other player on the pitch; his distribution was mainly short too, with just 6.7 per cent of his 45 passes sent long.

Going forward, Lucas unleashed one shot at goal from outside the penalty box - which was on target - and won one foul from the opposition without conceding any for his team.

Our No.21 was also vigilant defensively, completing four interceptions during the 90 minutes; that figure topped the rankings for either team once more.

The 26-year-old attempted four tackles against the Saints and was victorious in 75 per cent of his challenges, and made one clearance on his side's behalf.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/late...mpts-to-unlock

Bob is going to love that stat.

We lost so I could not give a flying **** about individual peformances in an area of the pitch we still clearly failed.

[Arn]

Bob is going to love that stat.

We lost so I could not give a flying **** about individual peformances in an area of the pitch we still clearly failed.

Well, it is very strange his orders clearly was to pass it short considering that he played higher up the pitch than Gerrard.

[Maxiedge]

His passing is excellent and crisp, no problems there.

My problem is that we're designating a player as a shield in front of the back 4 but yet we seem so exposed on the break. I know he can't cover every area on the pitch but that's where he used to excel by spotting the danger and taking up good positions.

I'm assuming his 'tidying up' is not what it used to be since the injury and hence the recent flurries of posts in this thread.

[RedReet]

His passing is excellent and crisp, no problems there.

My problem is that we're designating a player as a shield in front of the back 4 but yet we seem so exposed on the break. I know he can't cover every area on the pitch but that's where he used to excel by spotting the danger and taking up good positions.

I'm assuming his 'tidying up' is not what it used to be since the injury and hence the recent flurries of posts in this thread.

But essentially it's a back 2, as our 2 FB's starting positions will often be ahead of the midfielders, which is why we need Lucas there covering. I was actually looking at a graphic for our players average position on the pitch and Johnson was the 3rd furthest advanced behind Sturridge and Coutinho, so to accommodate this we need a disciplined DM. Obviously there is no need for this insurance when we play 4 CB's, but that's hardly the player's fault as he just went about his business as normal, sweeping up and keeping things simple.