Lucas

[baitman]

the issue is the system really.

as Bob and others have said, lucas wins the ball then often looks for a quick, snappy pass rather than carrying the ball forward. if the 'main man' gerrard is along side him this means that lucas's first option is often just a little pass to steve. the two defensive midfielders stifle our attack.
we should only go with two DMs if we are looking to close down a winning position for the last 15-20 minutes.

the delay in the quick forward movement of the ball as lucas passes short to gerrard or whoever is alongside in a two man defensive position allows quicker pressing from the oppo midfield.
gerrard then tries the hollywood pass to speed up the play and we are often back defending within a few seconds. we are allowing other sides to pressure us too easily...

normally we would have wing backs either side of lucas pressing forward. this would be an additional outlet for his passing, so if coutinho, or whoever is in that position is closed down, there would still be alternative players available to take the ball in an unpressured position.

[rudedog]

Its disappointing that Lucas is being questioned again after a couple of poor performances from the team as a whole - he is definitely not the issue but it is fair to say he hasn't reached his pre-injury levels. I don't understand why some people need to trace things back to a single point of failure when things don't go well - as far as I'm concerned there are a bunch of reasons why we are stuttering:

The movement hasn't been there - Coutinho and Sturridge aside, the outfield players haven't made themselves available which in turns puts pressure on the player making the pass. Last year we saw lots of neat one-touch triangular movements between players - this just hasn't happened this year and we've seen players panic and either hoof it or play a less than ideal pass to a player who is often already isolated and immediately under pressure (due to poor movement again).

We haven't pressed as well - mainly in the second halves of matches. I don't remember teams pegging us back for long periods like they have done this season. When we lose the ball, we aren't making enough effort to win it back - is this a fitness issue?

Key individuals - Suarez banned and injuries to Johnson, Sturridge, Agger, Toure, Kelly, Allen, Sissokho, Coutinho and Sturridge have had a pretty disruptive influence on the side. Also, it seems (like last year) Gerrard is taking a while to get started and not showing his normal levels of influence.

Periphery players - (dissapointingly) the squad players coming in such as Aspas, Sterling, Wisdom and Alberto haven't made any real impression at all - hopefully this is down to the disjointed way we've been playing but because we've been relying on them to make an impact its only amplified this disjointedness.

We are all hoping that Suarez will make a massive difference but unless the rest of the team sorts out their movement, pressing and passing I think we are going to struggle to be able to dominate games in the way we would like to.

[RedReet]

But I may as well saved the typing and replaced with 'Redreet is right on everything'.

I think that's crazy. First, Lucas is not the very best at his job - I think Mascherano was better at it than Lucas is as he was faster (or appeared to be). So if we had a better player there he would, by definition, do more than Lucas does. That can only strengthen the side.

Second if Lucas was able or allowed (it's not clear which) to do a bit more creatively then Gerrard would have to do a bit less. Gerrard is better defensively than most creative midfielders (Carrick for instance) so he already contributes more in that regard than many creative players. So it's feasible that Gerrard is making Lucas look good by helping him out while the reverse may not be the case.

I think the issue in central midfield is about balance. What I don't know is whether their "limitations" are imposed by the roles Rodgers has designated for them or by their own personal abilities and weaknesses.

I don't disagree with the general post, but I do have to question the bold bit. I don't see how Gerrard can get credit for making Lucas look good when his best form came when playing alongside Adam and Spearing of all people. I also thought he was as consistent alongside Meireles and Mascherano, but again the flaws were evident in such a balance.

[RedReet]

Its disappointing that Lucas is being questioned again after a couple of poor performances from the team as a whole - he is definitely not the issue but it is fair to say he hasn't reached his pre-injury levels. I don't understand why some people need to trace things back to a single point of failure when things don't go well - as far as I'm concerned there are a bunch of reasons why we are stuttering:

The movement hasn't been there - Coutinho and Sturridge aside, the outfield players haven't made themselves available which in turns puts pressure on the player making the pass. Last year we saw lots of neat one-touch triangular movements between players - this just hasn't happened this year and we've seen players panic and either hoof it or play a less than ideal pass to a player who is often already isolated and immediately under pressure (due to poor movement again).

We haven't pressed as well - mainly in the second halves of matches. I don't remember teams pegging us back for long periods like they have done this season. When we lose the ball, we aren't making enough effort to win it back - is this a fitness issue?

Key individuals - Suarez banned and injuries to Johnson, Sturridge, Agger, Toure, Kelly, Allen, Sissokho, Coutinho and Sturridge have had a pretty disruptive influence on the side. Also, it seems (like last year) Gerrard is taking a while to get started and not showing his normal levels of influence.

Periphery players - (dissapointingly) the squad players coming in such as Aspas, Sterling, Wisdom and Alberto haven't made any real impression at all - hopefully this is down to the disjointed way we've been playing but because we've been relying on them to make an impact its only amplified this disjointedness.

We are all hoping that Suarez will make a massive difference but unless the rest of the team sorts out their movement, pressing and passing I think we are going to struggle to be able to dominate games in the way we would like to.

I thought we pressed well against United though and defended well from the front.

[I, Ravel Morrison]

Once we have fit and working fullbacks, normal service should resume from the Gerrard-Lucas axis. Probably the real criticism of the pair is that (1) it's too one-paced, relying on Henderson for legs, and unable to resort to breaking with the ball at pace as an option, and (2) it's too one-note, heavily reliant on Gerrard not having an off-day.

[Norbs]

Key individuals - Suarez banned and injuries to Johnson, Sturridge, Agger, Toure, Kelly, Allen, Sissokho, Coutinho and Sturridge have had a pretty disruptive influence on the side. Also, it seems (like last year) Gerrard is taking a while to get started and not showing his normal levels of influence.

Sturridge is suffering from Dopey dwarf syndrome and this vicious circle needs to be addressed before he can move on

[Mattshark]

Once we have fit and working fullbacks, normal service should resume from the Gerrard-Lucas axis. Probably the real criticism of the pair is that (1) it's too one-paced, relying on Henderson for legs, and unable to resort to breaking with the ball at pace as an option, and (2) it's too one-note, heavily reliant on Gerrard not having an off-day.

With regards to issue 2, without Lucas our defence is far more exposed.

[I, Ravel Morrison]

With regards to issue 2, without Lucas our defence is far more exposed.

With the likes of Toure, Sahko and Ilori, proactive defenders who defend on the front foot and are adept on the ball, coming in, I believe Rodgers is trying grow our system out of the need for a Lucas, for a player who's solely there to defend and recycle the ball.

[Mattshark]

With the likes of Toure, Sahko and Ilori, proactive defenders who defend on the front foot and are adept on the ball, coming in, I believe Rodgers is trying grow our system out of the need for a Lucas, for a player who's solely there to defend and recycle the ball.

I think you'll find when a defence lacks midfield cover they concede far more goals.

I think the criticism of Lucas on here doesn't really make any sense.

[Neil Young]

What, that he's not perfect?

[RichC]

I think you're looking at this the wrong way Matt, from my opinion we need our midfield to offer more offensively which includes Lucas.

The dynamic in the middle of the park isn't quite working as well as it should and is a mixture of Lucas's defects going forward and Gerrard's defensive weaknesses. It might very well be the chopping and changing of the players behind them but we need to find a solution to it.

The obvious answer is to move Gerrard but I'm not sure that's the solution either.

[Neil Young]

That's what I said. Well, ok, I didn't it quite come out like that but...

Our Casemore, the Voice of Reason.

[BobTheCharmer]

Its easier to just say he's ****ing useless. That way its easier for the stat lovers amongst the group to pigeon hole those airing a view on the beautiful Lucas.

[I, Ravel Morrison]

I thought pre-injury Lucas was at his awesome best and in his physical prime, and had some world-class performances. If that Lucas, the same Lucas who could partner Charlie Adam and had little trouble dominating the likes of Yaya Toure, was partnering Gerrard right now, we won't be having this conversation.

[Mattshark]

I think you're looking at this the wrong way Matt, from my opinion we need our midfield to offer more offensively which includes Lucas.

The dynamic in the middle of the park isn't quite working as well as it should and is a mixture of Lucas's defects going forward and Gerrard's defensive weaknesses. It might very well be the chopping and changing of the players behind them but we need to find a solution to it.

The obvious answer is to move Gerrard but I'm not sure that's the solution either.

Well I don't think sacrficing our defence is either. I am failing to see what exactly Lucas has done wrong this season.

On the other hand, I think Gerrard has been poor, something which people seem to blaming Lucas for.