Rafa Watch

[The Erectile Banana]

Agree with that too - Rafa was notoriously ruthless in binning off **** signings - Gonzalez, Kromkamp, Josemi, Keane off the top of my head. In fact he was often criticised for ditching players too quickly

He can't win most of the time. But of course, we're all just completely blind and are totally incapable of recognising any faults

The fact he binned a lot of sub-par signings says more about his tansfer activity than it does about the individual players, and yes I know they were often not his first choice, but it doesn't mean they had to be ****e.

[Alex]

I think the whole rotation thing comes to the team being a sum of many parts. He always felt different players would do better against different opposition. Because he analysed things to the n'th degree changes were always going to happen. All managers rotate, its just that when alot of them do it its called 'resting'

[Shaggy]

The fact he binned a lot of sub-par signings says more about his tansfer activity than it does about the individual players, and yes I know they were often not his first choice, but it doesn't mean they had to be ****e.

When your spending power is so restricted, most signings have to be bigger gambles than normal. Spending in Netto is mostly gonna result in rubbish, but he found some pearls in Reina, Agger, Arbeloa and several more.

[Neil Young]

The fact he binned a lot of sub-par signings says more about his tansfer activity than it does about the individual players, and yes I know they were often not his first choice, but it doesn't mean they had to be ****e.

They weren't all ****e. The less you pay the more risk they won't work out.

So, yep, they weren't his first choice and many of them were cheap and some of those were ****e. Simple statistical chance says it was inevitable.

[The Erectile Banana]

They weren't all ****e. The less you pay the more risk they won't work out.

So, yep, they weren't his first choice and most of them were cheap and most of those were ****e. It was inevitable.

Was it really though? Should there have been such a drop off in quality between the first and second choice targets? Was it a fault of the scouting system? If you fancy fillet steak for dinner but can't source any you don't suddenly turn around and say 'sod it i'll have a Big Mac.'

[Fredo]

Ok, my list would be off the top of my head:

1) Managing the media. It might be amusing the way he played them and you could argue that it created an us vs them mentality but I think it also caused a lot of negativity aim at the manager, players and club

2) Rotation. Understand rotating based on fitness but it doesn't alllow for any stability if you use to excess.

3) Defensive play. I appreciate his amazing record but there were games where we were playing some **** at home and there were a good 7 defensive players in the starting lineup. It's my belief that had he taken a more attack approach to these games we would have potentially won 19.

I'm not getting in to this to slag the man off as I have huge respect for him but it just annoyed me no end at the time.

1) Kenny does the same, just differently but with a smile on his face. It's called wit, Rafa has it but it's a different style. Then, I do think they stuck the boot in most of the time, so the man had to defend himself and the club.

2) I think Rafa rotated extremely well, we competed on 3 fronts for most of the time during his tenure.

3) I can understand this, but I think that's purely down to the fact that he had to rotate and give some players a rest and sometimes it didn't work out. I can only relate to this during his final year though, as most of the time we were dominant and crushing teams at home.

[Vermilion]

They very much do.

Nah, you just notice it more because it bugs you.

[Chrono]

If you want to trace back the divisive stuff, you'll go back to Chrono's unnecessary remark.

You've taken a comment that I made and turned it in to something it never originally resembled. I wasn't trying to insult you (and others) and even attempted a disclaimer in every post I made.

[Shaggy]

I do think it's incredibly hard for you (and others) to recognise his weaknesses and faults.

I wasn't insulted - but what was it supposed to mean? I don't find it "incredibly hard" in the slightest and I don't think anyone does apart from maybe one chap. Still, you're entitled to your opinion on what other people think.

[Chrono]

1) Kenny does the same, just differently but with a smile on his face. It's called wit, Rafa has it but it's a different style. Then, I do think they stuck the boot in most of the time, so the man had to defend himself and the club.

2) I think Rafa rotated extremely well, we competed on 3 fronts for most of the time during his tenure.

3) I can understand this, but I think that's purely down to the fact that he had to rotate and give some players a rest and sometimes it didn't work out. I can only relate to this during his final year though, as most of the time we were dominant and crushing teams at home.

1) I think you answered that yourself. Clearly Kenny is better at this aspect than Rafa.

2) I think it was damaging but I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

3) I think there were always other options.

[Neil Young]

Was it really though? Should there have been such a drop off in quality between the first and second choice targets? Was it a fault of the scouting system? If you fancy fillet steak for dinner but can't source any you don't suddenly turn around and say 'sod it i'll have a Big Mac.'

Well, I think your analogy and your analysis are flawed. Most of the time he didn't go from fillet to Big Mac, but from fillet to sirloin or from spag bol to burger. For instance, it's certainly arguable that his target of Dani Alves was fillet but I wouldn't call Glen Johnson a Big Mac in comparison. Konchesky is a Big Mac.

As for the analysis, it fails to take into account all the players he signed who have worked out well and in some cases he persisted with in the face of some fans' complaints and who proved him right. Kuyt and Lucas are two obvious examples.

[Vermilion]

You've taken a comment that I made and turned it in to something it never originally resembled. I wasn't trying to insult you (and others) and even attempted a disclaimer in every post I made.

I know, i'm just playing around here, should'nt get serious this stuff.

But it's not that we don't see he had faults, just maybe we disagree what they were, and can see logigal reasons behind some of the others, and obviously there are the Rafa gaffs, just as there will be Fergie gaffs and Wenger Gaffs.

Thing is, we don't like it when Rafa is persecuted for such things as if he's the only top manager with said faults, and tbf, we've seen lots of that over the years from the media.

As far as i'm concerned, he made errors, of course he did, but once those two ******s took over the club the whole place became poiseness, mistrust, lies, deciet, the whole damn shooting match of everything that's bad in business, and bad for a manager of a sporting team to have to deal with.

[Tee]

I know, i'm just playing around here, should'nt get serious this stuff.

But it's not that we don't see he had faults, just maybe we disagree what they were, and can see logigal reasons behind some of the others, and obviously there are the Rafa gaffs, just as there will be Fergie gaffs and Wenger Gaffs.

Thing is, we don't like it when Rafa is persecuted for such things as if he's the only top manager with said faults, and tbf, we've seen lots of that over the years from the media.

Mate, on the whole Rafa is revered by those that really matter, us the Liverpool fans. That should be good enough now.

[Fredo]

1) I think you answered that yourself. Clearly Kenny is better at this aspect than Rafa.

2) I think it was damaging but I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

3) I think there were always other options.

I would agree with you that Kenny's inter personal skills are second to none, always have. Rafa's a loveable man as well, but he's more focused/intense and sometimes it may rub off people the wrong way.

[The Erectile Banana]

Well, I think your analogy and your analysis are flawed. Most of the time he didn't go from fillet to Big Mac, but from fillet to sirloin or from spag bol to burger. For instance, it's certainly arguable that his target of Dani Alves was fillet but I wouldn't call Glen Johnson a Big Mac in comparison. Konchesky is a Big Mac.

As for the analysis, it fails to take into account all the players he signed who have worked out well and in some cases he persisted with in the face of some fans' complaints and who proved him right. Kuyt and Lucas are two obvious examples.

My post was partially in response to Shaggy, who said Rafa was doing his spending in Netto.

And I wasn't referring to the likes of Glen Johnson, who's done well for the club, but to players who Rafa bought and shipped on again a year later. Besides, Johnson wasn't the back up target to Alves, Pennant was and he was a Big Mac if ever I saw one.

I'm not arguging that Rafa didn't make good signings, what I'm arguing is that Rafa bought too many players that made no impact at the club or were moved on too quickly. You may argue that he did well to shift these players when he decided they weren't what he wanted, but this scenario occurred too many times.