Rafa Watch

[Chrono]

I know, i'm just playing around here, should'nt get serious this stuff.

But it's not that we don't see he had faults, just maybe we disagree what they were, and can see logigal reasons behind some of the others, and obviously there are the Rafa gaffs, just as there will be Fergie gaffs and Wenger Gaffs.

Thing is, we don't like it when Rafa is persecuted for such things as if he's the only top manager with said faults, and tbf, we've seen lots of that over the years from the media.

I get where you are coming from but it seems the walls go up so high to the point where the indefensible is being defended and anyone who would question Rafa is just wrong. He gave me me one of the greatest experiences/nights of my life (awaits the inevitable) but also used to drive me crazy as I thought he could have done it (the league) if he had just not made what I perceive to be consitent mistakes.

[Chrono]

I would agree with you that Kenny's inter personal skills are second to none, always have. Rafa's a loveable man as well, but he's more focused/intense and sometimes it may rub off people the wrong way.

That's all I'm saying and completely agree

[Neil Young]

Ok, my list would be off the top of my head:

1) Managing the media. It might be amusing the way he played them and you could argue that it created an us vs them mentality but I think it also caused a lot of negativity aim at the manager, players and club

2) Rotation. Understand rotating based on fitness but it doesn't alllow for any stability if you use to excess.

3) Defensive play. I appreciate his amazing record but there were games where we were playing some **** at home and there were a good 7 defensive players in the starting lineup. It's my belief that had he taken a more attack approach to these games we would have potentially won 19.

I'm not getting in to this to slag the man off as I have huge respect for him but it just annoyed me no end at the time.

I think the managing the media thing was obviously a problem. I'm not so sure it's entirely Benitez's fault though. A good press office should have planned how to integrate him into the English football media scene for the benefit of the club (and himself). If our press office did that only for him to overrule them so he could do it the way he wanted then fair enough, he's to blame. But I don't have much faith in the professionalism of our media relations department in those days. (It does seem a little better now.)

[Neil Young]

My post was partially in response to Shaggy, who said Rafa was doing his spending in Netto.

And I wasn't referring to the likes of Glen Johnson, who's done well for the club, but to players who Rafa bought and shipped on again a year later. Besides, Johnson wasn't the back up target to Alves, Pennant was and he was a Big Mac if ever I saw one.

I'm not arguging that Rafa didn't make good signings, what I'm arguing is that Rafa bought too many players that made no impact at the club or were moved on too quickly. You may argue that he did well to shift these players when he decided they weren't what he wanted, but this scenario occurred too many times.

Shaggy's post was in response to my point which was in turn a response to the argument that Rafa signed ****e and didn't move them on quickly enough!

Give me one example of any English Premiership club where a manager consistently buys most of his players at Netto and they consistently exceed expectations.

My point is some transfers succeed, others don't. The more you pay, the more you can expect them to work out, but even then a few won't.

[The Erectile Banana]

Shaggy's post was in response to my point which was in turn a response to the argument that Rafa signed ****e and didn't move them on quickly enough!

Give me one example of any English Premiership club where a manager consistently buys most of his players at Netto and they consistently exceed expectations.

My point is some transfers succeed, others don't. The more you pay, the more you can expect them to work out, but even then a few won't.

I agree with you, except that I think Rafa signed an inordinately high amount of players who got shifted on within 12 months, and was not always justified in doing so. I believe this was a flaw of his.

[Fredo]

I agree with you, except that I think Rafa signed an inordinately high amount of players who got shifted on within 12 months, and was not always justified in doing so. I believe this was a flaw of his.

Nunez?

He hardly played and even became a cult hero.

[The Erectile Banana]

Nunez?

He hardly played and even became a cult hero.

Amongst others.

Not sure how lamented Antonio was.

[Neil Young]

I agree with you, except that I think Rafa signed an inordinately high amount of players who got shifted on within 12 months, and was not always justified in doing so. I believe this was a flaw of his.

I've lost the thread of this discussion.

Are you saying he wasn't always justified in signing them or in moving them on after 12 months?

[The Erectile Banana]

The likes of Gonzalez, Bellamy, Keane and Dossena spring to mind. They mightn't all have been world beaters but were all hastily discarded. Riera only lasted 18 months, and barely played in the last six months he was here. I know in some cases there were mitigating circumstances but it's a recurring pattern.

[Shaggy]

So we've got someone criticising him for holding on to and stubbornly persisting with "crap" for too long, and someone criticising him for binning players too quickly.

[Alex]

Its the Worth of Boast worlds

[Shaggy]

Its the Worth of Boast worlds

Couldn't make it up really. I guess it sums up how Rafa divides people, his critics can't even agree on what to criticise him about.

[Neil Young]

The likes of Gonzalez, Bellamy, Keane and Dossena spring to mind. They mightn't all have been world beaters but were all hastily discarded. Riera only lasted 18 months, and barely played in the last six months he was here. I know in some cases there were mitigating circumstances but it's a recurring pattern.

It's a pattern but it's partly confounded by the alternative pattern of keeping players like Babel (who failed) and Lucas (who has succeeded).

And it's also questionable as to whether moving those players on was a mistake of any kind. Bellamy is the obvious example of a player who would have been worth keeping but the "mitigating circumstances" might have been crucial and we have no idea why he was sold (it might have been a diktat from the board).

[Neil Young]

And, Bananaman, Keane was ****e and should never have been signed. Getting back most of our money was great.

I know you're Irish though so we can agree to disagree.

[The Erectile Banana]

So we've got someone criticising him for holding on to and stubbornly persisting with "crap" for too long, and someone criticising him for binning players too quickly.

That's the joy of message boards for you.

It's a pattern but it's partly confounded by the alternative pattern of keeping players like Babel (who failed) and Lucas (who has succeeded).

And it's also questionable as to whether moving those players on was a mistake of any kind. Bellamy is the obvious example of a player who would have been worth keeping but the "mitigating circumstances" might have been crucial and we have no idea why he was sold (it might have been a diktat from the board).

I think those moved on could have added something to the squad.
As for the pattern of keeping players he bought, that's something you'd expect any manager to do.

And, Bananaman, Keane was ****e and should never have been signed. Getting back most of our money was great.

I know you're Irish though so we can agree to disagree.

He was ****e, but only getting six months to succeed was a little unfair.