Boxing

[Doc_Piptorious]

I think Joshua will really fancy the job now.

Because you are on his side?

[fidget]

Sure thing.

I think Joshua will really fancy the job now.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Double for a stoppage inside 6 rounds?

Sure thing.

[fidget]

£10 charity bet? Me saying Fury, you saying Joshua?

Yeah would be up for that.


Now watch a super fat Fury turn up for it to pee me off if it gets signed.

Double for a stoppage inside 6 rounds?

[Doc_Piptorious]

I think Fury comes in heavy, very heavy for the rematch and tries to blast Usyk out of there.

The lean, mean Fury was outboxed pretty comprehensively on Saturday and to attempt to do the same in a rematch wouldn't make too much sense.

Do not disagree and is pretty much the strategy I suggested in my post.

Very high risk though. He does not stop Usyk outright in the first six rounds, he becomes a heavy bag for Usyk to land on after that.


Do think it is Fury's best chance though and the one I would go for though maybe not at a career high weight. He had close to a three stone weight advantage at the weekend so he had the extra weight to use for such a tactic.

I actually think that Usyk got into his head after all the attempts at mind games with Usyk just backfired and that just got worse when his size did nothing to dissuade Usyk once the first bell went. Think Fury is not used to another fighter not giving a toss about his size and treating Fury like he is a regular sized fighter. Very off putting thing in the ring if you fall into the trap of thinking the other guy should be paying more respect to an aspect of your abilities or physicality and then the guy just ignores what you think he should be respecting more.


Think Fury is not skilled enough to go after Usyk at mid range and trying to fight Usyk at range would fall down too as that is not a tactic that Fury could keep up long term against a more skilled boxer with better stamina than him.


Ugly brute force from the first bell is the best tactic against Usyk imo if I am any of the current top 10 or 15 heavyweights. Anything else plays to Usyk's strengths.


Comes with the caveat of getting your arse handed to you if Usyk is looking across the ring at you come the end of the sixth or so round though.


Assuming Usyk wins again, I think the rematch might well be the final fight in Usyk's career and the second last in Fury's.

[spud_gun]

Threw more, but missed with a higher % which only further saps energy levels.


Also Fury's accuracy relected his tempo round to round whereas Usyk kept up his steady tempo pretty much round after round right to the end.


Usyk's lower jab numbers and far higher power punch numbers reflect the fact that he prefers to fight in the pocket.



Think a rematch goes the exact same way tbh. Fury might be more aggressive at the start next time around, but Usyk will just look to stay in that pocket and stay in the centre of the ring and force the pace until Fury starts to gas a bit.


Best way for Fury to beat a guy like Usyk would not be from range as that would allow side on fighter like Usyk a way to move back into the pocket but instead to stay close to Usyk, lean on him, clinch and turn it into a really ugly brawl in the hope that a flurry of big shots, regular uppercuts, can land.



Problem with that tactic is that it relies on landing a fighting ending punch before running out of gas. Against another fighter I would fancy Fury's chances of spoiling to a win as few have the stamina levels Usyk does, but unless he could stop Usyk in six doing that I could see Usyk just staying at the one tempo under pressure then as Fury tires Usyk stays at the tempo that tired Fury and grinds him down.


Other than dodgy judges, I don't see Fury beating Usyk any way that involves going the distance. Has to stop him imo as I don't think Fury can do enough with his conditioning between now and October (or at all for that matter) to make up the difference between their engines.

Plus I think the Fury at the weekend might well have been the best Fury ever in terms of pure conditioning. That version of Fury turns a few of the tougher fights in his past career into easier nights.

I think Fury comes in heavy, very heavy for the rematch and tries to blast Usyk out of there.

The lean, mean Fury was outboxed pretty comprehensively on Saturday and to attempt to do the same in a rematch wouldn't make too much sense.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I'll have you a friendly charity £10 wager on Joshua if it ever happens.

£10 charity bet? Me saying Fury, you saying Joshua?

Yeah would be up for that.


Now watch a super fat Fury turn up for it to pee me off if it gets signed.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Compubox stats

https://www.boxingscene.com/compubox-stats-oleksandr-usyk-tyson-fury--183645

Really interesting takeaways - Fury threw more total punches than Usyk but Usyk's 170 landed punches were the most by a Fury opponent (Wallin had previous high with 127)

Threw more, but missed with a higher % which only further saps energy levels.


Also Fury's accuracy relected his tempo round to round whereas Usyk kept up his steady tempo pretty much round after round right to the end.


Usyk's lower jab numbers and far higher power punch numbers reflect the fact that he prefers to fight in the pocket.



Think a rematch goes the exact same way tbh. Fury might be more aggressive at the start next time around, but Usyk will just look to stay in that pocket and stay in the centre of the ring and force the pace until Fury starts to gas a bit.


Best way for Fury to beat a guy like Usyk would not be from range as that would allow side on fighter like Usyk a way to move back into the pocket but instead to stay close to Usyk, lean on him, clinch and turn it into a really ugly brawl in the hope that a flurry of big shots, regular uppercuts, can land.



Problem with that tactic is that it relies on landing a fighting ending punch before running out of gas. Against another fighter I would fancy Fury's chances of spoiling to a win as few have the stamina levels Usyk does, but unless he could stop Usyk in six doing that I could see Usyk just staying at the one tempo under pressure then as Fury tires Usyk stays at the tempo that tired Fury and grinds him down.


Other than dodgy judges, I don't see Fury beating Usyk any way that involves going the distance. Has to stop him imo as I don't think Fury can do enough with his conditioning between now and October (or at all for that matter) to make up the difference between their engines.

Plus I think the Fury at the weekend might well have been the best Fury ever in terms of pure conditioning. That version of Fury turns a few of the tougher fights in his past career into easier nights.

[spud_gun]

Compubox stats

https://www.boxingscene.com/compubox-stats-oleksandr-usyk-tyson-fury--183645

Really interesting takeaways - Fury threw more total punches than Usyk but Usyk's 170 landed punches were the most by a Fury opponent (Wallin had previous high with 127)

[Doc_Piptorious]

Interesting

If ever a boxer seemed designed to not be affected by any type of distraction, again, it would seem to be Usyk.

I did watch him dismantle Joshua, and again, it is that 'unstoppable force' approach that seems to be so hard to stop. He always appears to be moving forwards.

It is not so much that he moves forward all the time, though can see how it looks that way.

What Usyk does is fight in the pocket or hole almost all the time. Basically he fights at mid range and he looks to hold that position whilst keeping his tempo up.

Most guys fight either at range or in close and most heavyweights tend to fight at range when they can.

If the other guy, a bigger guy, then steps forward to close the range and clinch, Usyk takes a step back to maintain the mid range but keeps the tempo up.

If the other guy retreats and tries to use a jab to control the distance between them (fighting from range), then Usyk just steps forward and keeps the tempo going in that pocket of space.


Basically he forces you to go at it with him and forces you to keep moving in that pocket at the pace he is doing so. Plus he keeps turning to create angles with his body when in that pocket so he is never coming at you straight in the truest sense (again not that easy to notice when watching the fight) so you are having to constantly adjust your body to fight back (again burning up your reserves of stamina)


If you ever rewatch the fight with him and Fury again. Watch all the times Usyk catches Fury clean with a shot when they are close together. Look at Fury's face almost every time. His eyes register shock or surprise because he simply did not see the shot coming.

He could not handle the angles, he kept putting his body in a "straight" position when he was trying to reset and whilst he was doing that Uysk had already changed angles again and got another shot off.

That must have happened 30 or 40 times during the fight and Fury simply was unable to time Usyk or simply does not have the ability to time such a pocket fighter.


Usyk on the other hand is a master at timing other guys which is which he loves fighting in the pocket and is why he is so effective there. Sometimes he figures a guy out in a round, sometimes it takes him six or seven rounds and having to take some pressure, but he always times the other guy and when you know what to look for it is a thing of beauty to watch.

Usyk, as a boxer, is like someone took a fighter like Chris Byrd and spliced in the mentality and mental toughness of a Rocky Marciano.


Basically a very high quality skill set, a crazy high boxing IQ inside a body that is built for distance rather than outright power but married to a absolute stone cold killer levels of self confidence and will to win.



Said already in the thread, but Fury and a lot of other guys are lucky that Usyk is an average puncher (by heavyweight standards) otherwise there would be a lot more straight KOs on people's records.


Won't go as far as to say Usyk is one of my all time favourite boxers to watch in terms of technique, but is certainly one of my all time favourites within the heavyweight division.


Lennox Lewis in his prime would have stopped Usyk though imo and Lewis would have mullered Fury even quicker. Reason I have zero doubts on that is simply down to Lewis being an all time great heavyweight in my eyes and I think Lewis could have fought in an era of boxing (taking training and diets for each era into account) and been champ. Plus Lewis took out big guys with a lot more ease than he did the smaller ones. Bigger guys stayed still in front of him longer so got to have their naps earlier in fights.



Vitali Klitschko I would say would have stopped both too. Man was a beast of a fighter and far far more dangerous in the ring that his brother. Reason I give Vitali the nod over both is because Vitali shares a lot of the same traits that Usyk has just in a much much bigger body that happened to come with genuine wrecking ball punch power.

[Buzzo]

If almost any current heavyweight had Usyk's level of technique/skill, then they would be top dog.


Disagree on the showboating. Don't think that was a sign of Fury thinking he was winning. Think that was him doing what so many other boxers in the past have done with such showboating and that is to try and break the concentration of the other fighter or to get the other fighter to make a rash move that can then be exploited.


Problem with showboating against a guy like Usyk is that you are doing it to a guy with higher concentration levels and who fights at the same pace regardless of what his opponent is doing.

Whether Usyk is on top or under pressure, the tempo he fights at never changes so the guy against him is being forced to go at the same tempo and if that guy does not have an engine that at the very least does not match that of Usyk, then that guy's tank started to head towards empty first and usually in the final third of the fight.


Watch his old fights against the likes of Bellew, Gassiev, Dubois, Joshua, Fury and especially against Briedis. That high tempo, that high workrate coupled with a lighter division's skill set makes him a nightmare for any naturally bigger man and also for any similar sized man that cannot force a change in the tempo.

Interesting

If ever a boxer seemed designed to not be affected by any type of distraction, again, it would seem to be Usyk.

I did watch him dismantle Joshua, and again, it is that 'unstoppable force' approach that seems to be so hard to stop. He always appears to be moving forwards.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I’ve no insight at all as to boxing technique beyond that of most of the part time punters. But watching on Saturday that fight seemed to be one man who was a highly skilled and technical boxer vs another who basically just has a freakishly sized body parts with ridiculous reach. If Fury had Usyks discipline and technique he would surely have won?
The moment Fury started to lose was perfectly timed with the moment when he thought he had won and started showboating.

If almost any current heavyweight had Usyk's level of technique/skill, then they would be top dog.


Disagree on the showboating. Don't think that was a sign of Fury thinking he was winning. Think that was him doing what so many other boxers in the past have done with such showboating and that is to try and break the concentration of the other fighter or to get the other fighter to make a rash move that can then be exploited.


Problem with showboating against a guy like Usyk is that you are doing it to a guy with higher concentration levels and who fights at the same pace regardless of what his opponent is doing.

Whether Usyk is on top or under pressure, the tempo he fights at never changes so the guy against him is being forced to go at the same tempo and if that guy does not have an engine that at the very least does not match that of Usyk, then that guy's tank started to head towards empty first and usually in the final third of the fight.


Watch his old fights against the likes of Bellew, Gassiev, Dubois, Joshua, Fury and especially against Briedis. That high tempo, that high workrate coupled with a lighter division's skill set makes him a nightmare for any naturally bigger man and also for any similar sized man that cannot force a change in the tempo.

[fidget]

The best bit was when Usyk complained about being hit on the back of the head.
Ref did nothing then between rounds went over to Fury's corner and said something like I know you're doing it accidentally but try not to lol

[Angryred]

I thought the referee was very slow with 10 sec count in that standing count as he seemed to pause his way until the bell went so Tyson was more or less saved by the bell.

[Buzzo]

I’ve no insight at all as to boxing technique beyond that of most of the part time punters. But watching on Saturday that fight seemed to be one man who was a highly skilled and technical boxer vs another who basically just has a freakishly sized body parts with ridiculous reach. If Fury had Usyks discipline and technique he would surely have won?
The moment Fury started to lose was perfectly timed with the moment when he thought he had won and started showboating.