Boxing

[spud_gun]

Any idea what Canelo weighed as he entered the ring against Plant?

Even if he win's an alphabet title at Cruiser I don't see Canelo going full Jones Jr here and claiming a title at heavyweight

[Zapater]

Had a Google and couldn't find anything, but presumably several kilos as per usual. Although, I'm imagining not that much extra now that he's up at this weight. It seems that the WBC have reduced their cruiserweight limit to 190 because of this stupid new bridgerweight category. So, yes... Makabu will need to drop a considerable amount to make weight, there's always something with this.

Either way, it's good news for Benevidez and Munguia who are still a bit green for Canelo and could do with some more experience. Canelo has said though that he's conveniently reluctant to fight other Mexicans, so it remains to be seen if those fights will ever be made.

In other news, some title fights this weekend. Crawford and Andrade in action on the weekend. Not against each other obviously.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Had a Google and couldn't find anything, but presumably several kilos as per usual. Although, I'm imagining not that much extra now that he's up at this weight. It seems that the WBC have reduced their cruiserweight limit to 190 because of this stupid new bridgerweight category. So, yes... Makabu will need to drop a considerable amount to make weight, there's always something with this.

Either way, it's good news for Benevidez and Munguia who are still a bit green for Canelo and could do with some more experience. Canelo has said though that he's conveniently reluctant to fight other Mexicans, so it remains to be seen if those fights will ever be made.

In other news, some title fights this weekend. Crawford and Andrade in action on the weekend. Not against each other obviously.

Yep Canelo would have been at least a half stone over the weight limit when he walked to the ring, probably more looking at him.

I'm not sold on Benevidez yet. On Paper he looks great and his KO rate looks great until you start digging into the names on his record. The only name on his record really is Dirrell and he was 35 or 36. For most of that fight Dirrell gave him all he could handle.


And yes Benevidez is green in a sense but at the same time he is a pro boxer eight years now so a lot of the handicap of not having had much of a career in the unpaid ranks should have been made up through his training by now.

Something about him screams good but overhyped to me. He can hit, but again there are questions over that until he lands on someone in their prime with genuine durability and that is able to hit back.


The Mexican comments that Canelo made had me laughing. Benevidez is American born and bred. He might have a Mexican father but he is American himself and when it suited Canelo in the past he dismissed Amercian born fighters who called themselves Mexican as not being Mexican.

As always with Canelo there will be some angle to exploit in order to face or not face someone.

[Zapater]

Was thinking the tempo of Crawford and Porter reminded me a little of Mayweather vs Hatton. All of a sudden Porter is check hooked face first into the ropes.

[spud_gun]

What was Porters dad playing at there?

[Zapater]

What was Porters dad playing at there?

threw him under the bus a little. Don't k ow what went on in the preperation but Porter is a hard worker and seemed to be in good shape for the fight. He isn't the most talented ever but seems a great guy and always gives a lot.

Great stoppage BTW. Crawford is quality and underacknowledged.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Bit random, but 51 years ago this month the second best middleweight of all time (Cuz I say so :P ) Monzon first become the undisputed middleweight champion of the world when he beat Nino Benvenuti. Benvenuti was very much the bookie's favourite going into the fight and was expected to outbox and out work Monzon. As a side note, Monzon had to wait until his 81st pro fight before getting his title shot and he took only seven years to rack up the previous 80 fights.

Could not mention the middleweights of yesteryear without a mention of this guy as is my want. Hagler also had his first crack at a real title in the month of November (nine years after Monszon's title tilt) and he had to wait until his 50th pro fight before getting his shot which ended in a controversial draw. Imagine a lot of today's guys having 50 or 81 fights let alone having to fight that much to get their first crack at a title.


Footage is a bit naff, but still plenty of great offensive and defensive work on show.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40UA3pDU7Qo"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40UA3pDU7Qo[/ame]


Hmmm Think later I might have a crack at doing a new top ten middleweights of all time but with a twist of sorts if anyone else if up to doing likewise. Would pick my best middleweight from each decade and only one allowed per decade and to allow a little bit of wiggle room, you can pick two from one decade and one from all the other decades.

Admittedly my own knowledge of the 40s and 50s is so so and pretty much based on limited footage and reading.


So would be

1940s
1950s
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
2010s
2020s

[spud_gun]

Good idea for a thread Jaco.

50's followed by the 70's would be the easiest two to pick.

The rest could be tricky.

40's i'd have to pass on

[Doc_Piptorious]

Good idea for a thread Jaco.

50's followed by the 70's would be the easiest two to pick.

The rest could be tricky.

40's i'd have to pass on

60s, 70s, 80s and 90s would all be very tough decades to only pick one from imo, hell even if you use one of those decades as the decade to pick two from it, it is still a tough one. 1990s is very very tough.


Although having said that I think my own picks for the 1970s and 1980s would be no surprise to anyone

1950s actually had a lot of very good middleweights and the 1940s had a lot of guys who would make lists and probably a lot more than I know of.

Am actually almost finished my own list lol

[spud_gun]

How can you have Hagler as number 1 in the 80's when he got beaten by a retired welterweight

90's is intriguing. As much as i love Jones Jr it's hard to have him as the best middleweight of that decade. Hopkins came into his own in the 00's at the weight.
I wouldn't give Benn, Eubank or Collins much consideration.

Nunn straddled the 80s / 90s and McCallum lost his biggest fight to the boxer i'd consider the best middleweight of the 90s

James Toney

[Doc_Piptorious]

Some guys, like Roy Jones Jnr, are not making my list due to me regarding them as being at their best a divison below or above middleweight despite them also being belt holders or fighting at 154lbs.



1940s - Charles Burley

Google Murderers’ Row to get a bit of history on him and a number of other black boxers who were avoided by white boxers. Seen some footage of him over the years and the guy seemed years ahead of his era in terms of technique, conditioning, heart and raw toughness


1950s - Sugar Ray Robinson

Third best middleweight of all time imo and best welter of all time imo. Guy had it all. Maybe the best pure pound for pound boxer of all time.


1960s - Nino Benvenuti

Stylish boxer who could fight when he had to go into the trenches. Looked a good technician from what I have seen of him on tape and online. Lovely body attacks, tight defence, moved well and always changing angles.


1970s - Carlos Monzon

Second best middleweight of all time for me. Horrible man outside the ring and simply amazing in a ring. Lacked in nothing in the ring and could box, brawl, or fight better than anyone else that shared his era.


1980s - Marvin Hagler

Best ever for me. Like Monzon he had it all and then a bit more. A lot of people will remember him for the high profile fights towards the end of his career (Duran, Mugabi, Roldon,Hearns and Leonard) when he was slowing down and brawled more, but in his prime he was beutiful to watch and was as slick as anyone who ever pulled on gloves.


1990s - James Toney

The 1990s gave me some pause as it had many all time great boxers that dabbled in the middleweight division but really made their names at other weights but am going with Toney. A wonderful technician with a masterful defense and a wizard at the dark arts.

2000s - Bernard Hopkins

Simply for continuining where he left off in the 1990s and then raising the wuality of who he took on


2010s - Gennady Golovkin

Quality boxer who could turn destroyer in a heartbeat. Fought those that would fight him and avoided by many.


2020s - Jermall Charlo

Probably should not have added the 2020s as too early into the decade. As I refuse to recognise Canelo as a middleweight champion I will go with the imo best of the rest in Charlo.



Second fighter from one decade to eventually make up an even ten

1940s - Marcel Cerdan


Looks amazing from the old footage out there of him. Died at the age of 33 in a plane crash but had already fought 114 times by then and only lost 4 times. Like Charles Burley he looks a man who was years ahead of his time with regards to how he moved, threw punches, defended etc

[Doc_Piptorious]

How can you have Hagler as number 1 in the 80's when he got beaten by a retired welterweight

90's is intriguing. As much as i love Jones Jr it's hard to have him as the best middleweight of that decade. Hopkins came into his own in the 00's at the weight.
I wouldn't give Benn, Eubank or Collins much consideration.

Nunn straddled the 80s / 90s and McCallum lost his biggest fight to the boxer i'd consider the best middleweight of the 90s

James Toney

Heretic. If Hagler had played Ming The Merciless then Flash Gordon would have gotten chinned and Dale Arden would have gotten laid. That's how good the man was

[spud_gun]

Some guys, like Roy Jones Jnr, are not making my list due to me regarding them as being at their best a divison below or above middleweight despite them also being belt holders or fighting at 154lbs.



1940s - Charles Burley

Google Murderers’ Row to get a bit of history on him and a number of other black boxers who were avoided by white boxers. Seen some footage of him over the years and the guy seemed years ahead of his era in terms of technique, conditioning, heart and raw toughness


1950s - Sugar Ray Robinson

Third best middleweight of all time imo and best welter of all time imo. Guy had it all. Maybe the best pure pound for pound boxer of all time.


1960s - Nino Benvenuti

Stylish boxer who could fight when he had to go into the trenches. Looked a good technician from what I have seen of him on tape and online. Lovely body attacks, tight defence, moved well and always changing angles.


1970s - Carlos Monzon

Second best middleweight of all time for me. Horrible man outside the ring and simply amazing in a ring. Lacked in nothing in the ring and could box, brawl, or fight better than anyone else that shared his era.


1980s - Marvin Hagler

Best ever for me. Like Monzon he had it all and then a bit more. A lot of people will remember him for the high profile fights towards the end of his career (Duran, Mugabi, Roldon,Hearns and Leonard) when he was slowing down and brawled more, but in his prime he was beutiful to watch and was as slick as anyone who ever pulled on gloves.


1990s - James Toney

The 1990s gave me some pause as it had many all time great boxers that dabbled in the middleweight division but really made their names at other weights but am going with Toney. A wonderful technician with a masterful defense and a wizard at the dark arts.

2000s - Bernard Hopkins

Simply for continuining where he left off in the 1990s and then raising the wuality of who he took on


2010s - Gennady Golovkin

Quality boxer who could turn destroyer in a heartbeat. Fought those that would fight him and avoided by many.


2020s - Jermall Charlo

Probably should not have added the 2020s as too early into the decade. As I refuse to recognise Canelo as a middleweight champion I will go with the imo best of the rest in Charlo.

Hard to argue with any of those tbh.

I don't know enough about Charles Burley nor many boxers from that era so probably wouldn't have gone near the 1940s.

Calling Monzon a 'horrible man outside the ring' is a slight understatement. One of the absolute worst cunts to ever step into the ring would be more appropriate. Hard to lavish praise on such a monster.

2020s, you're right it's far too early to call.

Do welterweights next

[Doc_Piptorious]

Hard to argue with any of those tbh.

I don't know enough about Charles Burley nor many boxers from that era so probably wouldn't have gone near the 1940s.

Calling Monzon a 'horrible man outside the ring' is a slight understatement. One of the absolute worst cunts to ever step into the ring would be more appropriate. Hard to lavish praise on such a monster.

2020s, you're right it's far too early to call.

Do welterweights next

Do look into the fighters of the 1940s and the ones from the 1930s and 1920s as well. Some of the middleweights and heavyweights from those eras have amazing life stories along with their in ring exploits. Have built up a stupid collection of biographies etc of fighters from those eras and over the years have digested a silly amount of information on them at times.


Totally agree on Monzon outside the ring. Have commented on him in more detail before in this thread I think. Horrific "man" outside the ring with a long list of brutish savage behaviour to his bnbame and that is only the stuff that was made public.

Hard to dispute his ability inside the ring and for me he was someone I knew of as a boxer before I became old enough to understand just what a thug he actually was as a person.


Do welterweights next he says lol. I do occasionally have to do something productive with my time too you know.

Kind of hoped maybe a few others might join in with their own middleweight lists for the decades they wanted to do if they could not do one for each decade and it might spark a bit of debate when certain decades threw up a few options.



Welterweights would be tough for some decades. Tougher than the middleweights imo as I can think of a high number of quality welterweight for every decade I was alive and into boxing as well as loads of them from decades before I was born or aware of the welterweight division. Whereas for the middleweights the quality levels have dropped more in recent years compared to the welters.

Having said that, being only able to pick one per decade sort of makes it easier as well as it removes having to pick three from one decade like you would have to do if you were making a straight top tem list and ignoring decades.

Did have a bit of a think about it after typing the above though and just left this tab open on my pc for ages whilst I figured a few names out for myself and think I know my picks for the 1940s, 1950s (maybe), 1960s, 1970s, 1980s and one of either the 2000s or 2010s. The fact I named one of my middleweights as being the best welter of all time sort of has him nailed on to make this list too.


So I am up to maybe six out of ten so far in my head. To be honest I am a bit disappointed in some of my picks as they are very obvious ones. Maybe that says more about the welterweight division though and the fact it seems to throw up world class boxers in great numbers decade after decade after decade.

[spud_gun]

Do welterweights next he says lol. I do occasionally have to do something productive with my time too you know.

Kind of hoped maybe a few others might join in with their own middleweight lists for the decades they wanted to do if they could not do one for each decade and it might spark a bit of debate when certain decades threw up a few options.

No you don't

As for debate i think if you opened the debate up to say top 5 from each weight category per decade or top 5 boxers per decade you may get more discourse.

Top one may be too narrow as there's generally a consensus as to who the best boxer at X weight is over a particular decade.

You wouldn't get any arguing against you that Lewis was the best heavy of the 90s. However some may if you also included him as a top 5 heavy in the 00's

Not sure if you post on any of the boxing forums but some of the best threads are in the historic sections discussing exactly what we've been discussing.