Andy Carroll - Best Striker in the World

[Daniel 7]

That's about as positive a spin you can put on it I suppose.

Agreed, he should start every game just now - I viewed this spell without Suarez in the team as being a make or break for AC, but to not give him that run and at least give him the chance to prove his worth is a bit perplexing.

If Kenny can't trust him when we are down to the bare bones up front, he can't surely not be looking for a striker this window.

[Craig_H]

You can call it spin, but what part of it is untrue?

[Daniel 7]

Its a pity that his chance to ignite his Liverpool career has so far amounted to a highlight reel of acting the decoy for other players.

[Craig_H]

You're being deliberately daft here. Do you really think the only contribution a striker can make is to score goals? Of course that's a big part, but if a player's contribution leads to us getting chances and scoring goals (even if he isnt scoring them himself), then it has more chance of leading us to getting wins - which is kind of the point.

Carroll's presence opened up that chance for Dirk - if he had taken it, we'd have won.

[dww]

Part of the problem, surely, is that he doesn't even do that often enough. The fewer goals he scores the less effective a decoy he will become as well.

Not as down on Carroll as some but it is some what grasping at straws to suggest that his occasional utility as a decoy makes up for even his lack of general movement, let alone the failure to score or directly create goals on a regular basis.

[Craig_H]

I dont see why it's so bad - if his impact on the field leads to us scoring/winning, then what's the complaint? We're a team, not a bunch of individuals.

And if he doesnt do that often enough, maybe it's because he's not being played enough?

Whatever any of us think, PL defenders ARE wary of Andy Carroll in the box, it's a fact. And it's something which can work to our advantage, if he gets enough game time. I personally think that it's obvious.

[Daniel 7]

I'm not being deliberately daft Craig, I don't think its wrong to expect more from our number 9, the leader of our attack, than to act as decoy for our other players.

The decoy, assists, all round team contribution is expected - I'd say providing the physical presence to draw defenders out is a minimum.

[Craig_H]

I'm not being deliberately daft Craig, I don't think its wrong to expect more from our number 9, the leader of our attack, than to act as decoy for our other players.

The decoy, assists, all round team contribution is expected - I'd say providing the physical presence to draw defenders out is a minimum.

Yeah but pretending that a 'decoy' is all he is and all he will ever be, seems a bit daft to me. He hasnt NEVER done anything good other than be a decoy for us, has he? He HAS scored goals or been unlucky not to.

He's more than a 'decoy' but at the minute, if things arent going as good as they could, at least he is still providing something valuable.

Put it this way, if Dirk had scored that header (as he should) and we'd have won the game, would you be sat there bemoaning the fact that Carroll was 'only a decoy' ? I'd have been celebrating 3 points. But each to their own.

[Daniel 7]

You're misunderstanding me - I'm not saying he is and always will be the decoy (sounds like a bad Hollywood concept, but anyway) - I'm meaning since Suarez is out, its AC's big chance to establish himself as our number 9, our talisman and re-establish his reputation. So far that's amounted to a being a presence in the box for Dirk Kuyt to miss an opportunity. Its a pity that that is all he has produced is all I'm saying.

[Lecter]

Yeah but pretending that a 'decoy' is all he is and all he will ever be, seems a bit daft to me. He hasnt NEVER done anything good other than be a decoy for us, has he? He HAS scored goals or been unlucky not to.

He's more than a 'decoy' but at the minute, if things arent going as good as they could, at least he is still providing something valuable.

Put it this way, if Dirk had scored that header (as he should) and we'd have won the game, would you be sat there bemoaning the fact that Carroll was 'only a decoy' ? I'd have been celebrating 3 points. But each to their own.

Carrolls LFC career seems to have been defined by "ifs"

[Craig_H]

You're misunderstanding me - I'm not saying he is and always will be the decoy (sounds like a bad Hollywood concept, but anyway) - I'm meaning since Suarez is out, its AC's big chance to establish himself as our number 9, our talisman and re-establish his reputation. So far that's amounted to a being a presence in the box for Dirk Kuyt to miss an opportunity. Its a pity that that is all he has produced is all I'm saying.

I'll agree that it'd be nice if he did more - but i'd add two caveats to that...

1) he isnt really being given the time/chances to maximise the likelihood of him producing much more.

2) whilst i'd like to see more, i'm not going to devalue what he HAS done. I'm not sure if you agree with me, but IMO his presence in the box, unsettling defenders, can be very useful for us and lead to goals.

[Daniel 7]

I'll agree that it'd be nice if he did more - but i'd add two caveats to that...

1) he isnt really being given the time/chances to maximise the likelihood of him producing much more.

2) whilst i'd like to see more, i'm not going to devalue what he HAS done. I'm not sure if you agree with me, but IMO his presence in the box, unsettling defenders, can be very useful for us and lead to goals.

Number 1 I said earlier - re it being perplexing that Kenny isn't playing him - it doesn't really seem to be benefiting anyone.

[Keith]

A couple of points for you chaps to chew over!

1 - After the Torres/Carroll transfers last January I seem to recall one of our American owners defending the transaction by saying that the deal they struck with Chelsea was that they would pay us whatever Newcastle wanted for Carroll plus £15M. If this is true then it is only Chelsea who are the losers in this deal. At the moment, with the way they are both performing, you could say that we swopped one **** striker for another and got £15M for our troubles. You could say that is the deal of the century!

2 - At the beginning of the 2010-11 season I believed Carroll was a donkey. An overrated (by Geordies hankering after the new Alan Shearer) pile of excrement. However during the first half of the season I was amazed to see that the donkey had been transformed into a powerful battering ram of a centre forward, dominant in the air, tough to shake off the ball, not slow (once he'd got going) with a hammer shot in his left foot... Put simply he looked like England's future centre forward. Cappello seemed to think so too, as he selected him for England and AC obliged with a goal.

Fast forward to January and Carroll becomes Britain's most expensive footballer when he moves as a 'makeweight' in the Torres deal, whilst he is injured and unable to play. Bear in mind that this was a raw 20 year old being taken out of his hometown club for whom he was the focal point of their attacks leaving for a big club, i.e. big fish in a small pond becoming a small fish in a big pond.

When questioned about signing a player who is injured Kenny points out that has signed Carroll for 5 years not 5 minutes... And there is the crux of the matter. Liverpool identified Carroll as 'one for the future'.

ATM Carroll is performing woefully but remember his age and where he has come from. I believe Carroll will become a very good (though probably not great) player, but he needs time.

As someone else pointed out on this thread remember all the stick LFC supporters (me included ) gave to Lucas and look at him now.

Unfortunately I do not believe he will ever be able to fit in with the style of football LFC currently play. So we either change the way we play to make the most of his abilities or we get rid.

OK over. I look forward to your feedback, providing I haven't bored you all to death

[fred_plasticine]

a 12 year old can outmuscle carroll these days. he looked like a mad ****er at newcastle - full of aggression and strength, seemingly without a care in the world. the bad boy troublemaker image suited his style and reputation perfectly.
now, it's like he's got the weight of the world on his shoulders. the lunatic in him needs to be unleashed again i'm afraid before he see the best of him, if ever we will.

[TheElephantMan]

Footballers won't be allowed to use aggression or strength soon, they're punished for tackling and speaking now - it won't be long before all offensive play is banned. Carroll is leading the line for the elimination of goalscoring which is hurtful to opposition players and supporters.