Stewart Downing - West Hahahaham player

[Norbs]

Just teasing brother

[Shanks]

Also, Carroll scored 2 goals......

As I am not a real fan I could see from the benefit of replays that he scored it.

[Exiled_red]

I think alot of people are hung on on things like this player isn't good enough, or this player was too expensive, someone else would have been better. For me it's about creating a team that plays well together. Over the last 20 years we have had some very talented players, the problem has often been that they don't play well together, we have had so many player that have come in an under performed because they haven't been utilised correctly.

If you look at Man Utd's success over the years they have regularly relied on players that were average, but they did their job in the team. They created a team that was greater than the sum of it's parts, too often in the past 20 years we have had a team that has been weaker than the sum of it's parts, this approach has seen us become over reliant on our best players performing regularly. In a well functioning team when the star players don't perform the team unit is often still strong enough to get results. This is what we should be looking to achieve.

[Gibbo]

We've wasted £85 million on utter ****e (Adam, Carroll, Downing and Henderson). In 25 years supporting us, I've never been more depressed, nor indeed as frightened about the start of a season as I currently am. We'll be lucky to finish in the top 10 at this rate.

If only we could sign Suarez or Torres type players rather than the above mentioned Championship level dross.

Massive, massive overreaction here, while some people (including myself) think some of the fee's reported are a little inflated, but you can forget that these are media reported figures, and may well be off the mark. I think someone on this forum (Lecter IIRC) who is more in the know about these things than me, (and with respect probably you) posted out figures that where closer to the truth, and these where far less depressing, some even presentably surprising. And even you must admit you are more confident for this season than last.

I am a Liverpool season ticket holder and went to 35 league games, the Northampton Town game, the United FA Cup game and the Napoli and Bucharest games so well done on your accurate prediction as to my footballing loyalties.

Its alright for some!

Adam - couldn't get into the Rangers team (Championship level in my view) before going to an actual Championship team (Blackpool) where he was in a promoted side which promptly got relegated again. They got relegated to the Championship where they belong - the fact their second best player last season has now joined us does not alter the fact that he wasn't good enough to play in a team which could last 38 games in the Premier League.

Adam was a shining star for Blackpool in the Championship, he was probably the best player in the league that year, he carried Blackpool single handedly and his performance in the play-off final was a good example of this. he then moved up to the PL and was consistently good for them again his passing range is second to none, and looking at the pre-season games I've seen him in so far for us he has looked like he good be a good acquisition, and I think I am the most confident about Adam then any of the other signings you mentioned to be good for us.

Andy Carroll - great player. A lot of the idiots on this forum have taken great delight in Torres being a total flop for Chelsea. He has scored 1 competitive goal for his new club. Carroll has scored in 1 competitive game for his new club, and our third on the night looked like an own goal to me, but I was only at the game - you of course would have had a much better view from your armchair.

Carroll is a much bigger waste of money than Torres. Torres has played at the highest level for Spain, scoring the winning goal at the European Championships. Carroll was bettered by the likes of Stokes and Hooper when they all played in the Championship at the same time. The prevailing view that the current stewards of the club can do no wrong is imbicellic - if we had signed Gary Hooper for £35 million would you have been happy? Probably. Says more about you than me.

I don't see the problem in taking delight in Torres not performing he left us on the last day of the transfer window, he hung us out to dry and give us no option but to panic buy, hence the signing of Carroll, now I do think we overpaid for Carroll, you make a good point but Carroll is only young, and he has plenty of room to improve and does in theory have all of the attributes to make an excellent centre forward, I am worried about how he will perform, especially as he has continued to look very out of form in pre-season, but the Man City game should show everyone what he can do, he just needs to produce it consistently. I idolised Torres but I would rather spend 35m£ on a player that is on the up and shows tons of potential than 50m on a player that looks to be on his way down and not able to recreate his former form, Another point, yes, you go to the games but people like me don't watch football from my chair by choice, I would give pretty much anything to be able to be at every game but you are almost using it as a measurement of how loyal we are as fans, and that is something a WUM would do.

Henderson - 20 years old. Achieved nothing in the Premier League. Is he Championship or Premiership standard quality. 18 very average premier league months very much leave the jury out. I don't mind a "punt" on young talent but £20 million is ridiculous. Has he showed the promise of a Gerrard, a Rooney or even a Walcott - no. Therefore to spend only slightly less on him than we did on Suarez is a risible decision.

Agree with this to be honest, I think we have paid too much for Henderson, as fans we just have to hope that he reaches the high standards of this football club, he is young and has plenty of time to improve.

Downing. Best season was with Middlesbrough - an established Premier League club. He contributes very little, is perennially injured and has extremely limited resale value. I will concede he is of Premier League quality, but is no better than that fan favourite Jermaine Pennant.

IMO Downing is better than Pennant, he is also an experienced winger at the top level stats have shown just how productive he is at the top level and to get the best out of Carroll we need to play to his strengths mainly his size and power, therefore productivity = good.

The response to my post is a microcosm of the mentality of some on this board which is so very tiresome and why I post so seldom. You don't agree with me (which is fair enough) so I am a wum. Well done on reaching such an enlightened stage.

As for contrasting this time last year to our present situation, I think we are immeasurably worse off. Champions League football is further away than ever, we have weakened our team since this time last year whilst United, City, Chelsea and Spurs have strengthened and Arsenal, for the moment at least, haven't weakened.

Arsenal have lost their first choice left back and have bought and attacking midfielder, they are also about to lose their best and most influential player, they will struggle next season.

Mascherano and Torres or Adam and Carroll. Gee that's tough.

On top form Macher and Torres, but both decided they didn't want to play for us and left, it wasn't a case of we bought Adam and Carroll over Macher and Torres, they where just seen as suitable replacements.

I know our messianic owners, exhalted director of transfer policy and deified manager can do no wrong. Let's just see how you feel when our 2 remaining top class players (Reina and Suarez) leave and we replace them with more **** at twice the price.

You don't see Gerrard as a top class player then? if so why not?

I was in Istanbul and Athens but those days are well and truly behind us now. Still - what do I know. The geniuses of EST have spoken - any dissent is "wummery". I think Mr Oldham told me something similar when he banned me.

You have wrote some things that could look like you was on a wind-up you have your own views and that is fair enough but it might be a bit more constructive if you take other peoples views into account instead of going with the I go to games therefore I am correct mentality

[BillobShaisley]

Adam - couldn't get into the Rangers team (Championship level in my view) before going to an actual Championship team (Blackpool) where he was in a promoted side which promptly got relegated again. They got relegated to the Championship where they belong - the fact their second best player last season has now joined us does not alter the fact that he wasn't good enough to play in a team which could last 38 games in the Premier League.

-One word, "Henchoz"

Carroll - Using what someone did 3 yrs ago to decide on the entire career potential is illogical. Last year playing in a **** Newcastle side he scored a shedload of goals. Injured and lost match sharpness but all the attributes are there. Did we overpay, almost definately, doesn't seem to have limited our ability to keep spending though has it? Wages probably not ridiculous either so over 5yrs the cost is somewhat mitigated.


- Macherano + Torres or Spearing & Ngog?
At least use a like for like comparisson. Macherano + Torres raised us over 80mil. Torres' replacement was Suarez. In more realistic terms the swap for Carroll was Babel.

Then it's Macherano for Downing & Adam

Yes, it's true that we've not been able to replace Mascherano, but those two arguably bring more to our squad that we have been missing.

Henderson is a big gamble, but then it seems more like 16mil than 20mil if reports are correct. I think as LFC fans we've become a bit removed from how the game has moved on. We still think that 16mil is a lot of money! Bentley, Anderson, Hargreaves etc, its the going rate for a young prospect. Is he a bargain? Definately not. Was he a priority for now? Debateable. Was it a complete wtf like bebe or Tosic? Not on your nelly! Like Carroll, probably not on huge wages either when compared with other options like say Meireles.

[Norbs]

Let's see if tbounce is prepared to debate like an adult. I can feel his frustration but would like to reassure him that I've probably been waiting patiently for is to win the league for longer than he's been on this planet

[IN_RAFA_WE_TRUST]

just read what you posted above this post of mine and then read the title under your user ID sorry

[Daniel 7]

I read somewhere that NUFC had Carroll listed as a £500k asset just over 2 years ago. I'd say thats nearer the truth than the £35m we were taken for.

[Chrono]

Anyone who doesn't see Gerrard as World Class is a WUM especially on an Liverpool forum.

[MrMichael]

I read somewhere that NUFC had Carroll listed as a £500k asset just over 2 years ago. I'd say thats nearer the truth than the £35m we were taken for.

Its also extremely misleading. Just over 2 years ago Newcastle were a complete shambles, had just been relegated, and Carroll hadn't started a first team game. The Geordies aren't known for their realism I'll admit, but I've argued with several of their season ticket holders about this, with them saying he was worth every penny.

We definitely overpaid imo, but then we'd just scalped Chelsea in the Torres deal. Ultimately, we paid Babel and Torres for Carroll and Suarez so we didn't come out too badly; context I believe is key when looking at what we paid out in Jan.

[Norbs]

Its also extremely misleading. Just over 2 years ago Newcastle were a complete shambles, had just been relegated, and Carroll hadn't started a first team game. The Geordies aren't known for their realism I'll admit, but I've argued with several of their season ticket holders about this, with them saying he was worth every penny.

We definitely overpaid imo, but then we'd just scalped Chelsea in the Torres deal. Ultimately, we paid Babel and Torres for Carroll and Suarez so we didn't come out too badly; context I believe is key when looking at what we paid out in Jan.

Torres and Babel was an 80/20 split in value to the club, going on evidence so far, Suarez and Carroll cut a similar sway

[Rowan]

Its also extremely misleading. Just over 2 years ago Newcastle were a complete shambles, had just been relegated, and Carroll hadn't started a first team game. The Geordies aren't known for their realism I'll admit, but I've argued with several of their season ticket holders about this, with them saying he was worth every penny.

We definitely overpaid imo, but then we'd just scalped Chelsea in the Torres deal. Ultimately, we paid Babel and Torres for Carroll and Suarez so we didn't come out too badly; context I believe is key when looking at what we paid out in Jan.

although while all Geordies were created equally unrealistic some are more realistic than others.

£35 m is a ****load of money in any context but Carroll was unplayable for defenders at times. He'll be ideal when he gets a run of games.

[Mostar]

We paid for the potential not what he was worth it at that time. He is only 22 so he'll hold proper value for a long time being English international bar any serious injuries.

We brought in players that should make the best out of him and hopefully he'll come through for us and if he doesn't well it is always risk when you sign a player and some work out and some don't. It's the nature of the business.

Another point is that we keep focusing on the transfer fee alone and not on his wages and those 2 would need to be looked together.

[IN_RAFA_WE_TRUST]

Andy Carroll,boys the battering ram is going to have you all jizzing over yerselves like lee does, next season he will score 30 goals. Put your house on it. Trust me.

[Daniel 7]

15 goals tops, spells of injury, one or two brilliant games I'll grudgingly admit to and many displays of lumbering mediocrity. I'll see your house and raise you what I just wrote.