Stewart Downing - West Hahahaham player

[Arn]

There may be some truth in that, but i think we're suffering from the fact that top class wingers are incredibly hard to come by. Even Mata, who i always wanted ahead of Downing (like others did) isnt *really* an out and out winger.

If you were to name the world's best 10 wingers, chances are the majority of them are at clubs who wont/dont need to sell them, wouldnt come to us, or are simply not 'buyable' do to the obscene price they'd command.

Out of interest, and i'm asking because i'm genuinely curious, but who you would list as the best 5 wingers in world football?

They're in disappointingly low supply and i think that's something that has played a part if, as you believe, we've signed one who isnt good enough, in Downing.

The top five wingers IMO.

1. Robben
2. Silva
3. Ribery
4. Cazorla
5. Hazard.

There isn't really one out and out wingers out there. If you play wide then a part of your job now is to cut inside a lot.

An attacking player must now be able to play in several positions. Being an out and out winger isn't enough. You must be more than that.

[Kenneth]

Here we go.

[Craig_H]

The top five wingers IMO.

1. Robben
2. Silva
3. Ribery
4. Cazorla
5. Hazard.

There isn't really one out and out wingers out there. If you play wide then a part of your job now is to cut inside a lot.

An attacking player must now be able to play in several positions. Being an out and out winger isn't enough. You must be more than that.

That sums it really mate, of those 5, i'd argue that there's only real one 'real' winger amongst them, two at best. I dont see much to disagree with regarding your five but as we've both pointed out, the days of the 'out and out' winger are nearly gone. FWIW, i think you can still be very successful with an out and out winger, but there arent many truly brilliant ones out there.

And regarding those 5, we'd never get Robben, Ribery or Silva. Cazorla went to moneybags Malaga and Hazard will no doubt head to Real Madrid.

I think this paints a very clear picture of how hard it is to get brilliant world class wingers and why we've got Downing.

[dom9]

Wingers are so 1988 anyway.

John Barnes
David Rocastle
Franz Carr

[Craig_H]

What i wouldnt give to have John Barnes at his peak right now

Honestly think he'd be up there with Ronaldo and Messi if he was playing now and in his pomp.

[Arn]

I may come out looking like a negative idiot sometimes and I won't be over the moon just because we win a game and I won't be a moaning idiot when we drop points.

I want us to improve all the time. I want us to correct the mistakes we do. Just like our legendary managers told our players after a win and even after we won the league title.

You can always improve. You should always aim to get better. You should always aim to play better in the next game.

I will be happy after we won the league title, FA Cup or the CL. I will enjoy it when we win games of course.

I want to see improvement all the time. I want us to be the best again.

[dom9]

I want you to improve Arn. Come on, you're only as good as your last post. The past counts for nothing.

[Craig_H]

I may come out looking like a negative idiot sometimes and I won't be over the moon just because we win a game and I won't be a moaning idiot when we drop points.

I want us to improve all the time. I want us to correct the mistakes we do. Just like our legendary managers told our players after a win and even after we won the league title.

You can always improve. You should always aim to get better. You should always aim to play better in the next game.

I will be happy after we won the league title, FA Cup or the CL. I will enjoy it when we win games of course.

I want to see improvement all the time. I want us to be the best again.

it's just 'me' 'me' 'me' isnt it? There's no 'I' in team Arn. You're starting to sound like Bodgson

[Arn]

it's just 'me' 'me' 'me' isnt it? There's no 'I' in team Arn. You're starting to sound like Bodgson

The point is. How much more can Downing improve because he must improve.

We can afford to wait on a player like Henderson to improve for example but Downing must show now what he can do. He will probably only have two or three years left at the top.

Time isn't on his side. If he had been 22 or 23 years old for example then it would be a totally different story.

[Kenneth]

I don't think he needs to improve, as in improve his overall level. Just he and the team need to bed into a way of playing. So he does need time in that regard.

[Craig_H]

I agree Arn, but for different reasons.

In our set up, we have 4 players, realistically in the side, who are mainly responsible for winning us the games (creating chances & scoring). Maybe 5 if you include one of the CMs.

So, as 20% or 25% of that group, Downing (like the others) has a major responsibility on his shoulders to win us games. It's the kind of scenario where you need 4 players in your side who can consistently win you the game or do something significant to contribute to winning - so that you can say "if he doesnt do it, this one will. If that fella dont, we've got this guy. And if he also doesnt, there's that lad" etc.

Downing needs to be in that category and whilst he's done reasonably well, there'll need to be a bit of a step up.

[Norbs]

Wingers are so 1988 anyway.

John Barnes
David Rocastle
Franz Carr

RIP, poor bugger

[Mostar]

Should come out of the team against the Mancs for me - Bellamy in. I

'll be honest, I think he's getting a bit of a free pass with most people venting about Adam, Carroll and/or Henderson. His first three games were okay, 7/10 and I expected him to kick on. Instead he's had a few invisible performances.

I hope/think the idea of having a big(ger) squad is to have the option to take out players who aren't playing well and replace them with quality. Downing has started every game until now so, as he did with Henderson against the Bitters, Kenny should IMO drop Downing and get Bellamy in the team.

Bellamy cannot play 2 games in 4 days stretch due to his bad knees so if he is featured for Wales against Bulgaria I don't think he'll start against Mancs regardless if Kenny would give him a chance.

I think Kenny got this signing wrong but that is my opinion. We need a better player on the left than him.

Squad player yes but not in the starting XI week in week out. Maxi would probably create more than him.

We need high quality players in all our attacking positions. A goal threat in every attacking position. Downing isn't a goal threat. He will score a few goals but he isn't a goal threat.

Way too early to make that type of statement. He is still trying to find his feet with us and if he scored couple and had few assists as he should have I think the opinion of him would be different by many.

[little dave hedgehog]

if he scored couple and had few assists as he should have I think the opinion of him would be different by many.

duh.

[lickedlollipop]

As Shaggy would put it, his last few performances have been bang average. I'd start Bellamy instead of him against United.

i hope this happens again:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNpRXevpizc"]Bellamy amazing goal vs Man United - YouTube[/ame]