Not liking the reports coming out from Athens

[reddragon]

impatience and mickey mouse operations by the police

is right.

Not surprised at the impatience though - you'd be impatient if you'd just spent the best part of a grand to watch a match and then you were in sight of the stadium and you had no idea why you weren't getting any further.

[Lecter]

lec, there were spot checks at the outer stadium, it was a ****ing joke

My brother didnt have to go through a check (and he had a ticket)

Have also heard that one bloke waved a packet of ciggies at the police and got through INTO the ground

Come on

There was one crucial element the forgeries didnt have and that was the "Athens" writing that showed up under ultra violet light

These ultra violet lights should have been distributed to all check points at ALL routes to the stadium

UEFA's excuses are kind of like building a prison without walls then blaming the prisoners for walking out

You have a situation you have to put measures in to deal with that situation. There is no good moralising on it as that doesnt have any effect

[Guest]

You would think the authorities would learn from history

Hillsborough 1988 spot checks by police on route to the stadium. Without a genuine ticket you didnt get through the barriers to proceed towards the next check point

Hillsborough 1989 no police checks - rest is history sadly

Athens no spot checks on route to stadium

Istanbul dealt with the situation why couldnt Athens??

You're right Lecter but again, why aren't the english officials helping out in the policing ? Isn't there a proper procedure to deal with English fans particularly, meaning there would be English officials doing the policing in parts ?

UEFA have their failures and I've not been condoning them whatsoever, but by culture, I meant english fans should be responsible enough in not trying to bunk in without a ticket !

That is why fans such as myself will probably think twice before going to a Liverpool match in the future ! Hardcore fans or not, this is not worth risking your life going there, simply no.

[reddragon]

Do you think most were successful?

haven't a scooby.
All i know is when we got in the ground there must have been 25 - 30,000 in our end when it should have been 15,000 ish

[Lecter]

mate it was a joke in istanbul too - thats why so many lads thought it would be easy to bunk in

According to my brother and dad Athens wasnt nearly as well organised as Istanbul

[reddragon]

There was one crucial element the forgeries didnt have and that was the "Athens" writing that showed up under ultra violet light

These ultra violet lights should have been distributed to all check points at ALL routes to the stadium

i saw about half a dozen security people with those lights - as my dad and brother got there tickets checked me and about 20 others just walked in between them!!

[reddragon]

According to my brother and dad Athens wasnt nearly as well organised as Istanbul

well i was at both, and athens had the idea right with about 3-4 checkpoints along the way into the stadium - a bit like cardiif going along the river walk into the ground.

The problem was most people weren't getting checked at the checkpoints

[Lecter]

You're right Lecter but again, why aren't the english officials helping out in the policing ? Isn't there a proper procedure to deal with English fans particularly, meaning there would be English officials doing the policing in parts ?

UEFA have their failures and I've not been condoning them whatsoever, but by culture, I meant english fans should be responsible enough in not trying to bunk in without a ticket !

That is why fans such as myself will probably think twice before going to a Liverpool match in the future ! Hardcore fans or not, this is not worth risking your life going there, simply no.

I dont know what English officials can do

You cannot prevent people travelling to that country just because they dont have a ticket, someone will always find a way around that by not flying direct

Football fans are fanatics and thats why at times they let passion rule their heads. Its wrong but nothing will EVER change that mentality

There where already Merseyside police on the gorund liasing with Greek Police in the build up to the game but whether that is to stop troublemakers prior to the game or actually at the ground I dont know

For me there is a problem you look for a solution, appealling to peoples morals and better judgement is a non-starter so you have to address the issue itself and deal with it effectively

[Lecter]

well i was at both, and athens had the idea right with about 3-4 checkpoints along the way into the stadium - a bit like cardiif going along the river walk into the ground.

The problem was most people weren't getting checked at the checkpoints

So they had checkpoints that didnt check anything

Sounds like they have a handle on the situation

As I say its pathetic you dont leave the stable door open if you want to keep a horse inside

[Guest]

For me there is a problem you look for a solution, appealling to peoples morals and better judgement is a non-starter so you have to address the issue itself and deal with it effectively

Agreed, and I don't think giving us more allocation will be a solution either, as some have pointed out in this thread.

[disco]

I totally agree Lec - you can't change people's nature.

However, the argument that it's the police/authorities/UEFAs fault and NOT 'people's nature' seems very harsh IMO. See DJS's analogy re. blaming a car company for people stealing cars...

I think we just have to accept that those fans make the vast majority look bad. And that's a shame.

[kurtangle01]

They will not do anything. If they didnt do anything to Utd in Rome then how can they do anything to us.

Fans with legitimate tickets were not allowed in.....some paying thousands for tickets and plane flights. I would be ****ing livid if that happened to me.

Whos fault is that??? UEFA's!! They ****ed up big time.

I tend to agree with this. It's UEFA's responsibility to make sure that the right sort of check points are set up and the right sort of procedures are put in place to verify the validity of tickets.

Sadly they haven't done this and honest people with real tickets have been locked out. How the **** does UEFA expect them to react?

[Guest]

I tend to agree with this. It's UEFA's responsibility to make sure that the right sort of check points are set up and the right sort of procedures are put in place to verify the validity of tickets.

Sadly they haven't done this and honest people with real tickets have been locked out. How the **** does UEFA expect them to react?

The difference is I would have been disappointed yes, but wouldn't have broken a fence or attacked a policeman because of it though.

[Guest]

And telling UEFA ****ed up big time etc ... is pretty daft reasoning IMHO, that's what I'm trying to say since the beginning.

[reddragon]

I dont know what English officials can do

You cannot prevent people travelling to that country just because they dont have a ticket, someone will always find a way around that by not flying direct

Football fans are fanatics and thats why at times they let passion rule their heads. Its wrong but nothing will EVER change that mentality

There where already Merseyside police on the gorund liasing with Greek Police in the build up to the game but whether that is to stop troublemakers prior to the game or actually at the ground I dont know

For me there is a problem you look for a solution, appealling to peoples morals and better judgement is a non-starter so you have to address the issue itself and deal with it effectively

there is a case for british stewards and police to be over there though, and consulted on. Remember we take a LOT of fans to these games. It seems to me that Liverpool, United and Celtic are the 3 teams that do this in Europe [witness Milan - one of the biggest clubs in Europe but cant even sell their own allocation]. Correct me if i'm wrong about this - maybe Munich, Barca etc may fall into this category too.

The FA Cup creates a huge black market every year, but is there ever any of these problems in Cardiff or now at Wembley - NO!! This is because the British police are experts at controlling big football crowds.