(bumped) Ronnie Whelan is as big a **** as Dunphy and Giles.

[bobbyfallon]

haha - seriously tho

I kinda see what he was saying - imo, in theory a top class professional footballer should have a better understanding of the game than the average bloke on the street.......but the poitn i think u were trying to make was that is not always the case. What I think Jan was failing to grasp was, that there is a fair few football pro's who may be great players but are literally thick! - they live their whole lives with everything 'done' fun them, almost like a robot - jan mentioned diets, well I bet half the top pros have a ****ing clue why they have these diets, they just get told to what to eat cause it's good for them etc. You can be a good footballer without actually understanding what u are doing or what the game is about.

Like your examples - i have a few, i play at a fairly decent amatuer level - one of my good mates is a striker, he lived in belgium when he was a kid and played for waterloo and then went on to anderlecht but broke his leg so came home. His understanding of the game, all be it at an amatuer level, is ****ing shocking, he hasn't got a clue what is going on, and he couldn't coach or manager a team or offer any insight into tactics etc.

Yet he scores EVERY game he plays. A whole array of finishes, from tap ins, to headers, to 25 yd volleys. He is just purely a natural finisher - now as i said this is only amatuer level but comparasions can be made with the top levels. For example I have another mate who as never played a proper game of football in his life -

so going by jan's theory surely my mate who is as good an amatuer striker you can get should have more 'knowledge' of the game than my mate who can't kick a ball. But he doesn't and you can have a much more in depth and knowledgable debate with the lad who can't play.

pub football

[Shaggy]

haha - seriously tho

I kinda see what he was saying - imo, in theory a top class professional footballer should have a better understanding of the game than the average bloke on the street.......but the poitn i think u were trying to make was that is not always the case. What I think Jan was failing to grasp was, that there is a fair few football pro's who may be great players but are literally thick! - they live their whole lives with everything 'done' fun them, almost like a robot - jan mentioned diets, well I bet half the top pros have a ****ing clue why they have these diets, they just get told to what to eat cause it's good for them etc. You can be a good footballer without actually understanding what u are doing or what the game is about.

Like your examples - i have a few, i play at a fairly decent amatuer level - one of my good mates is a striker, he lived in belgium when he was a kid and played for waterloo and then went on to anderlecht but broke his leg so came home. His understanding of the game, all be it at an amatuer level, is ****ing shocking, he hasn't got a clue what is going on, and he couldn't coach or manager a team or offer any insight into tactics etc.

Yet he scores EVERY game he plays. A whole array of finishes, from tap ins, to headers, to 25 yd volleys. He is just purely a natural finisher - now as i said this is only amatuer level but comparasions can be made with the top levels. For example I have another mate who as never played a proper game of football in his life -

so going by jan's theory surely my mate who is as good an amatuer striker you can get should have more 'knowledge' of the game than my mate who can't kick a ball. But he doesn't and you can have a much more in depth and knowledgable debate with the lad who can't play.

Exactly.

[PTP]

pub football

- er no - Carlsberg West Cheshire on a Saturday think it's about tier 10 on the football pyramid, - but yeah pub footie on a Sunday

[MrMichael]

Ok, one of you 2 needs to do something about your avatar, I keep thinking you're replying to yourselves

It was funny initially, but at this time of the morning its just getting confusing.

[bobbyfallon]

- er no - Carlsberg West Cheshire on a Saturday think it's about tier 10 on the football pyramid, - but yeah pub footie on a Sunday

played last night indoor with some fellas from the golf club - every thursday from now on. it was comical to be honest - five mins in and everyone is shouting are we going to have a half time

id say that is about tier 100 in footballing terms - i owned the football end of things. pints after - these lads have no respect for pints

[bobbyfallon]

Ok, one of you 2 needs to do something about your avatar, I keep thinking you're replying to yourselves

It was funny initially, but at this time of the morning its just getting confusing.

pair of ugly ****ers

[MrMichael]

pair of ugly ****ers

That too

[dww]

Since when has any pundit been employed to talk about 'agents, eating habits, player bonuses'?

They are employed to talk about the actual football, and not all ex-pros have a very good understanding of it.

In a way I think that this goes to the heart of the matter. I think that the only problem with your original statement is that you left what was meant by insight into the game implicit. It is patently obvious to all that players do have insights into many parts of the game, but many of them fail to go beyond the individuals view and experience to offer a more 'global' insight into tactics, player ability and are not able to pinpoint key details that make all the difference tactically.

It's that level of insight that makes good pundits and managers and it is a rare skill. You can obviously do exceptionally well as an individual footballer by instinct which is very different to insight, which I would argue has to be conscious and particularly so if you intend to communicate it.

I think that a lot of British managers of the early 90s were successful with limited insight but it was notable that very few British managers survived from that era once foreign coaches who thought more about the game and were forced to look at the nuances came in. At the minute we seem to be suffering from a similar problem in terms of TV pundits lack of knowledge. It is particularly clear when the likes of Hodgson, who is obviously a thoughtful and intelligent thinker about the game, offer their opinions.

[Helios Creed]

wallow in yourself you cunt


hahahaha thats up there with the best

up there with "You can stick it up your bollocks".

[BFG]

In a way I think that this goes to the heart of the matter. I think that the only problem with your original statement is that you left what was meant by insight into the game implicit. It is patently obvious to all that players do have insights into many parts of the game but many of them fail to beyond the individuals view and experience and offer more 'global' insight into tactics, player ability and are not able to pinpoint key details that make all the difference tactically.

It's that level of insight that makes good pundits and managers and it is a rare skill. You can obviously do exceptionally well as an individual footballer by instinct which is very different to insight, which I would argue has to be conscious and particularly so if you intend to communicate it.

I think that a lot of British managers of the early 90s were successful with limited insight but it was notable that very few British managers survived from that era once foreign coaches who thought more about the game and were forced to look at the nuances came in. At the minute we seem to be suffering from a similar problem in terms of TV pundits lack of knowledge. It is particularly clear when the likes of Hodgson who is obviously a thoughtful and intelligent thinker about the game offer their opinions.

Where was this thoughtful post and calming influence when Shaggy was hounding poor Jan Molby out?

[bobbyfallon]

Where was this thoughtful post and calming influence when Shaggy was hounding poor Jan Molby out?

a verbal attack like we seen yesterday is totally uncalled for

[dww]

Where was this thoughtful post and calming influence when Shaggy was hounding poor Jan Molby out?

I think it was enjoying the free wine on the delayed train back from Liverpool

[Dhav]

****ing great thread, although it has taken something of a surreal turn. Shaggy clinically finishes off another victim.

[Shaggy]

In a way I think that this goes to the heart of the matter. I think that the only problem with your original statement is that you left what was meant by insight into the game implicit. It is patently obvious to all that players do have insights into many parts of the game but many of them fail to beyond the individuals view and experience and offer more 'global' insight into tactics, player ability and are not able to pinpoint key details that make all the difference tactically.

It's that level of insight that makes good pundits and managers and it is a rare skill. You can obviously do exceptionally well as an individual footballer by instinct which is very different to insight, which I would argue has to be conscious and particularly so if you intend to communicate it.

I think that a lot of British managers of the early 90s were successful with limited insight but it was notable that very few British managers survived from that era once foreign coaches who thought more about the game and were forced to look at the nuances came in. At the minute we seem to be suffering from a similar problem in terms of TV pundits lack of knowledge. It is particularly clear when the likes of Hodgson who is obviously a thoughtful and intelligent thinker about the game offer their opinions.

[Shaggy]

****ing great thread, although it has taken something of a surreal turn. Shaggy clinically finishes off another victim.