Pacheco to Norwich on loan

[Shanks]

Do you see yourself in Liverpool next season?

You notice that all the Spanish influence has been leaving the reds. Changes have been made and you take notice.
Liverpool have a philosophy and they’re hiring more English people again.
I still have three years left in my contract.

That's a NO then.... and if so.. Take the rest of them "Spanish" with you..



I Blame Rafa..

[DeeTheDog]

The blame lies with those who didn't grant him a loan in the summer. That's why he has become annoyed.

A young player needs to play games to improve. If he wasn't in the first team plans here then he should have been loaned out.

If there were any other problems he wouldn't have signed a contract extension.

If the problem occurred last summer, why did he sign the contract extension in winter?

Playing devil's advocate, he hardly has been ripping up the reserves, in near recent times both Mellor and Nemeth stood out more playing with the reserves. If he got more first team action, he probably would have been written off already with that classic 'not Liverpool class,' line.

Personally, I hope he does well at Norwich as it seems only Ayala and Ince, have benefited at all this season from going out on loan, the rest are rotting on the subs benches of lower league teams.

[dww]

If the problem occurred last summer, why did he sign the contract extension in winter?

Playing devil's advocate, he hardly has been ripping up the reserves, in near recent times both Mellor and Nemeth stood out more playing with the reserves. If he got more first team action, he probably would have been written off already with that classic 'not Liverpool class,' line.

Personally, I hope he does well at Norwich as it seems only Ayala and Ince, have benefited at all this season from going out on loan, the rest are rotting on the subs benches of lower league teams.

I think the Mellor/Nemeth thing says as much about the nature of the reserve league as anything. The lack of teams who really care makes it a far from useful barometer of a players ability.

In some ways I think being on the bench for a lower league side might help some players realise how hard they will have to work to actually make it.

In general I think people are too quick to get over excited about young players in the u18 and reserve teams and too quick to write them off when they get chances in the first team.

This season/year has been particularly unhelpful for developing young players. Perhaps with a bit of stability we will be able to persuade the likes of Pacheco that we are a viable option to develop at. Good loan moves seem likely to help. Although I still think they are hard to come by a lot of the time. This one at Norwich with a seemingly good coach playing decent football only came about due to injuries and the closing of the transfer window I suspect.

[Exiled_red]

I think the Mellor/Nemeth thing says as much about the nature of the reserve league as anything. The lack of teams who really care makes it a far from useful barometer of a players ability.

In some ways I think being on the bench for a lower league side might help some players realise how hard they will have to work to actually make it.

The reserve league really is a joke, Rafa was right in that the system really does need overhauling. Personally I think that the kids tend to stagnate in the reserves, they reach than level and play at it for so long they don't improve. I think that we should ideally be looking at a policy of only letting the promising kids stay in the reserves for a year or so before shipping them out on loan. Ideally we'd like to see players go to the Premiership or Championship, but in most cases this is perhaps unrealistic, I feel they would progress more playing in League 1 or 2 than the reserves, and if they are still young and do well then they could move up to a second loan spell at a higher level.

In general I think people are too quick to get over excited about young players in the u18 and reserve teams and too quick to write them off when they get chances in the first team.

This season/year has been particularly unhelpful for developing young players. Perhaps with a bit of stability we will be able to persuade the likes of Pacheco that we are a viable option to develop at. Good loan moves seem likely to help. Although I still think they are hard to come by a lot of the time. This one at Norwich with a seemingly good coach playing decent football only came about due to injuries and the closing of the transfer window I suspect.

I think that the problem with getting good loan moves comes down to who is in your management team and their connections as well as the players ability. Take for example Man Utd there are alot of former Man Utd players out at other clubs willing to take their players on loan. When we had Rafa we had very few players making loan moves to English clubs, perhaps because Rafa didn't have the connections within the English game. The only good Premiership loan move I recall us getting aside from good players (such as Scott Carson) was Danny Guthrie to Bolton (Who were managed by Sammy Lee at the time ). Hopefully having King Kenny (and a largely British coaching staff) will change this because they must have more/better connections in England.

[RedReet]

The reserve league really is a joke, Rafa was right in that the system really does need overhauling. Personally I think that the kids tend to stagnate in the reserves, they reach than level and play at it for so long they don't improve. I think that we should ideally be looking at a policy of only letting the promising kids stay in the reserves for a year or so before shipping them out on loan. Ideally we'd like to see players go to the Premiership or Championship, but in most cases this is perhaps unrealistic, I feel they would progress more playing in League 1 or 2 than the reserves, and if they are still young and do well then they could move up to a second loan spell at a higher level.




I think that the problem with getting good loan moves comes down to who is in your management team and their connections as well as the players ability. Take for example Man Utd there are alot of former Man Utd players out at other clubs willing to take their players on loan. When we had Rafa we had very few players making loan moves to English clubs, perhaps because Rafa didn't have the connections within the English game. The only good Premiership loan move I recall us getting aside from good players (such as Scott Carson) was Danny Guthrie to Bolton (Who were managed by Sammy Lee at the time ). Hopefully having King Kenny (and a largely British coaching staff) will change this because they must have more/better connections in England.

Even Scotland. I'm sure a few of our reserves could improve the Celtic team. Did both old Firm teams not also try and take Hammill after his successful spell in the SPL and I'm sure we have better players than him available.

Scottish football mightn't suit the likes of Pacheco, but I'm sure there are others who would benefit from the experience.

[Exiled_red]

Even Scotland. I'm sure a few of our reserves could improve the Celtic team. Did both old Firm teams not also try and take Hammill after his successful spell in the SPL and I'm sure we have better players than him available.

Scottish football mightn't suit the likes of Pacheco, but I'm sure there are others who would benefit from the experience.

True the SPL would be useful experience too, although I'm never sure where that ranks in comparison to the English league. To be honest I'm not sure if there is any benefit in sending players to any of the lower Scottish leagues, it's game time but I don't think the standard there is high at all.

[dww]

The reserve league really is a joke, Rafa was right in that the system really does need overhauling. Personally I think that the kids tend to stagnate in the reserves, they reach than level and play at it for so long they don't improve. I think that we should ideally be looking at a policy of only letting the promising kids stay in the reserves for a year or so before shipping them out on loan. Ideally we'd like to see players go to the Premiership or Championship, but in most cases this is perhaps unrealistic, I feel they would progress more playing in League 1 or 2 than the reserves, and if they are still young and do well then they could move up to a second loan spell at a higher level.




I think that the problem with getting good loan moves comes down to who is in your management team and their connections as well as the players ability. Take for example Man Utd there are alot of former Man Utd players out at other clubs willing to take their players on loan. When we had Rafa we had very few players making loan moves to English clubs, perhaps because Rafa didn't have the connections within the English game. The only good Premiership loan move I recall us getting aside from good players (such as Scott Carson) was Danny Guthrie to Bolton (Who were managed by Sammy Lee at the time ). Hopefully having King Kenny (and a largely British coaching staff) will change this because they must have more/better connections in England.

I actually think this was one of the reasons that Rafa bought Kenny back into the club.

[red g]

True the SPL would be useful experience too, although I'm never sure where that ranks in comparison to the English league. To be honest I'm not sure if there is any benefit in sending players to any of the lower Scottish leagues, it's game time but I don't think the standard there is high at all.

looking at Danny Wilson sending them to the SPL would be of no use whatsoever!!

[Exiled_red]

looking at Danny Wilson sending them to the SPL would be of no use whatsoever!!

I think that is a little unfair, Wilson hasn't been at the level we had hoped, but the majority of his games have been out of his favoured position. I think competitive football at a higher standard than the reserve team level can only help players develop, and despite what people say about Scottish football, the level is higher than the reserves.

[RedReet]

looking at Danny Wilson sending them to the SPL would be of no use whatsoever!!

Or maybe if we had of let him stay for another year and gain more experience, he'd have been ready for the first team when called upon.

[red g]

Or maybe if we had of let him stay for another year and gain more experience, he'd have been ready for the first team when called upon.

Scottish FWA Young Player of the Year award
Scottish PFA Young Player of the Year award
Rangers Young Player of the Year

basically the most outstanding youngster in Scotland that season......I am not saying he wont be decent in the long run, but he doesnt look like an outstanding talent when I have seen him.

You would have hope for a player so highly acclaimed he would have looked better, think thats fair to say.

there could eb a whole host of reasons though including settling in etc, But when we bought him there was talk of first team action straight away, he looks way off that at the moment in terms of strengh and positioning etc.

[RedReet]

Well a lot of people said he made the move too early and would have benefited from another year of 1st team experience.

Personally I too have been a bit disappointed with the impact he's made so far, but he's usually been picked in difficult circumstances and has plenty of time to improve. Due to the Hodgson factor and the constant changing at the back, I've given all our defenders a bye ball this year, so will reserve judgement on Wilson until next season at least.

[Exiled_red]

I think the problem with Wilson is that he has been played out of position, he isn't a left back he is a centre back, that's where he played at Rangers I don't think that we should judge him until we have seen him play in his best position. For me he has looked poor because he has been caught out of position at left back so often, but this is a position he hasn't played before.

Rafa had philosophy that young players should play a number of positions to give them a greater awareness of the game, hence Kelly a centre back is effective at full back, and other centre backs have been played in holding midfield roles to improve their ability on the ball. I don't believe that Wilson has had anything like that at Rangers, perhaps he would have benefited from such a system, and wouldn't look so bad now at left back...

[red g]

I think the problem with Wilson is that he has been played out of position, he isn't a left back he is a centre back, that's where he played at Rangers I don't think that we should judge him until we have seen him play in his best position. For me he has looked poor because he has been caught out of position at left back so often, but this is a position he hasn't played before.

Rafa had philosophy that young players should play a number of positions to give them a greater awareness of the game, hence Kelly a centre back is effective at full back, and other centre backs have been played in holding midfield roles to improve their ability on the ball. I don't believe that Wilson has had anything like that at Rangers, perhaps he would have benefited from such a system, and wouldn't look so bad now at left back...

Yes i am aware of Rafa's Philosphy and think it works well, but as regards Kelly I really see his long term future as full back, his main attributes seem to be his work rate and he does seem very composed to and delivers a decent cross. I know everyone has alwyas said he is a CB playing fullback but maybe it shoulbd be the other way round?

as regards Wilson, point taken although I thought he has played LB a bit at rangers, to be fair I don;t keep tabs on any football north of the border.

[Shaggy]

http://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwich-city-fc/paul_lambert_dani_pacheco_debut_as_good_as_they_get_1_850250?

Paul Lambert: Dani Pacheco debut as good as they get

Michael Bailey Saturday, April 2, 2011
6:48 PM

Paul Lambert believes the debut of young Spanish loanee Dani Pacheco was as good as he has seen.

The Liverpool and former Barcelona youngster was too hot to handle as Norwich City ran relegation-haunted Scunthorpe United ragged at Carrow Road on Saturday afternoon, hammering the 10-man visitors 6-0.

Hat-tricks from Grant Holt and second-half substitute Simeon Jackson decided matters for second place City, while Pacheco’s performance will have eased the sight of Wes Hoolahan limping out with a hamstring injury.

That could mean Hoolahan, who was also on top form against the Iron, is a major doubt for next weekend’s mouth-watering clash with automatic promotion rivals Swansea City in Wales.

“I thought from the off we were outstanding,” said Lambert, who was delighted with the debut of on-loan Liverpool star Dani Pacheco.

“The tempo of the game was great, the new lads have certainly given the place a lift and the way we played was excellent.

“I thought his debut was as good as I’ve seen. I thought he was brilliant, he lifted the crowd.

“The hype about him was over the top. People thought he was just going to come in here like Lionel Messi. He’s only a 20-year-old kid learning the game, but I thought his performance was fantastic.”

As for Scunthorpe manager Alan Knill, taking charge of his first game since leaving Bury on Thursday, the defeat did not knock his sense of humour.

““I’ve been in one day, watched training Friday and it confirmed what I thought,” he said. “When a team is second from bottom, you know there are some problems and I knew that when I came.

“I think we can definitely be better than that. It’s extremely difficult with 10 men against a really good side, but the good thing is I’ve only got (Championship leaders) QPR next Saturday.”