Evra accuses Suarez of racism

[Vermilion]

It wouldn't help his overall credibility, no. But in the absence of anything to show Evra knew there was nothing remotely racist about what Suarez said, I think it's more reasonable not to apportion blame on him for taking offence as though he ought to have known.

Your right of course, and it's exactly what everyone is doing with Suarez really.

edit: I just don't trust Evra.

[Vermilion]

Chavs now saying they considered wearing T shirts to support mRcHAVSKI, but thought it wouldn't help and wasn't the best thing to do....
(or words to Chav effect.)

[MrMichael]

Suarez and Evra: The Real ‘Lie’ You Haven’t Been Told

Where's that from dude, have you got a link to it?

Its very well put.

I think we need to respect Evra's right to hear the word within his cultural sensitivities too. That's what I've been saying for weeks.

Absolutely. I have no doubt that Evra fely racially insulted by Suarez' language, just as I also have no doubt that Suarez was not intending to racially insult Evra. Patronise, almost certainly, insult even, but not abuse on the basis of his race, despite its reference in the term he used. Were the conversation to have taken place in English this distinction would not be relevant, but it didn't, and it is.

Whether Suarez felt similarily insulted by Evra is by-the-by really. The issue with this whole thing for me is that it is absolutely not a black & white issue (pun unintended), yet the manner in which it has been delt with by all concerned has made it one in the minds of almost everybody.

Btw the diminutive doesn't make the word offensive, it adds a more affectionate tone. Any insult comes from the patronising over familiarity that might represent in the context.

[Suarez]

Where's that from dude, have you got a link to it?

Its very well put.



Absolutely. I have no doubt that Evra fely racially insulted by Suarez' language, just as I also have no doubt that Suarez was not intending to racially insult Evra. Patronise, almost certainly, insult even, but not abuse on the basis of his race, despite its reference in the term he used. Were the conversation to have taken place in English this distinction would not be relevant, but it didn't, and it is.

Whether Suarez felt similarily insulted by Evra is by-the-by really. The issue with this whole thing for me is that it is absolutely not a black & white issue (pun unintended), yet the manner in which it has been delt with by all concerned has made it one in the minds of almost everybody.

http://thekop.liverpoolfc.tv/_Suarez-and-Evra-The-Real-Lie-You-Havent-Been-Told/blog/5666848/173471.html

[Fosterbloke]

Isn't it racist to refer to Suarez' mixed race status?

[Suarez]

not very articulate or intelligent, but it does go to show how the word is accepted and used in south america




This photo of the Argentine National Team illustrates how freely the word Negro is used in Latin America. Of special note here is that the player on the extreme right is Gabriel Heinze, teammate to Partice Evra 2007-2009 on Manchester United.

Some other notable players Lionel Messi (Barcelona), Gonzalo Higuain (Real Madrid), Angel DiMaria (Real Madrid), Javier Mascherano (Barcelona - former Liverpool), Maxi Rodriguez (Liverpool).

I guess this makes ALL Latin America Footballers (all Latin Americans in general) RACISTS.

The message was toward former national team footballer Fernando Cáceres(black player) who was shot in the head in a drive by shooting. I'm sure that all of these players did not personally know Fernando (he was on the team in 1993 and this photo is from 2009).

So I guess the FA would deem that the players were racially abusing Fernando, after he had been shot in the head, and was recovering in the hospital. Those Latin's are just so backwards aren't they.

[mick the click]

From Jamaica's national daily. Apologies if it's been posted earlier...

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20111223/cleisure/cleisure4.html

Calling a Negro a Negro
Published: Friday | December 23, 2011 22 Comments

by Orville Higgins

Virtually everyone in the football world is talking about the eight-match ban given to Liverpool's Luis Suarez based on a so-called racial insult of Manchester United's Patrice Evra.

Depending on which website you surf, Suarez was supposed to have called him a negrite, a Spanish word meaning 'little Negro', or actually used the word 'Negro' itself.

I find the whole thing preposterous. Is the word 'Negro' now also taboo on a football field?

Isn't Evra a Negro? I checked my dictionary and found out that 'Negro' was a legitimate word, which means a member of the dominant ethnic group of Africa. Or a black male or female.

One school of thought is that this is nothing more than the English FA trying to embarrass Sepp Blatter, the FIFA president. Blatter had said that a lot of these so-called on-field racist comments could be settled with a handshake. The statement triggered a huge backlash, especially among the English population, and the theory is that the English FA is doing this to show Blatter how different they are from him.

Whether or not that's true, it's nonsense to impose a charge of £40,000 and an eight-match ban to call a Negro a Negro!

Evra doesn't appear to me to be the most credible of witnesses either. He said he was called this name by Suarez at least 10 different times. Ten times! Nobody else can corroborate the story. It is mind-boggling that a player can say something to another player 10 times without anybody hearing.

We must not forget that in 2008 the French defender was banned for four games after hitting a Chelsea groundsman after a game. Then, too, he had said he was racially abused by the groundsman. The English FA didn't find any such evidence then. Indeed, when handing down the ban, the English FA had said Evra's evidence was exaggerated and unreliable.

Was Evra's credibility taken into question? And how did Evra keep count? Ten sounds like such a round, convenient number, doesn't it?

It would have been more plausible if he had said nine or 11. The umpires in cricket once used stones or marbles to check deliveries, and sometimes even they got it wrong. Maybe Evra had walked with his marbles.

Suarez said he made the remark once when the two were jostling around in the box for a corner, and his story just sounds more credible to me. The two were close-marking each other for the whole game. Evra was even booked. Yet, he waited until after the game to tell the ref what the real deal was. Please!

In his statement to the FA, we heard that Evra said he didn't believe that Suarez was a racist. The English FA also said it wasn't of that view. So why then would Evra or the FA have a problem with Suarez's use of the N-word? If Evra doesn't believe Suarez is racist, how come a standard word has become racist?

Follow me now. Can a black man be accused of racially abusing another black man? Highly unlikely, because people would say that a black man couldn't mean anything derogatory when he uses that term to another black man.

And for the record, Suarez's grandfather is black.

The English FA and Evra are making much ado about nothing.

Orville Higgins is the 2011 winner of the Hugh Crosskill/Raymond Sharpe Award for Sports Reporting. Email feedback to [email protected].

[Red_Polo]

Really poor argument in that Jamaican newspaper article.

That piece is the kind of support that hurts Suarez' cause IMO.

[Exiled_red]

I find it hard to believe the fa missed this opportunity too, but i think a message was clearly wanting to be sent by someone, and the case has imo been judged from a very one sided point of view.

I think I read somewhere (I think an interview with Gordon Taylor) that the PFA tried to get the players together to discuss the issue before it went this far, but the players (or the clubs) were unwilling to do so.

Now perhaps this is my bias coming into this but I can't see why Suarez would be against trying to clear up what from his point of view is a cultural mis-understanding, which suggests that the blame for this not being resolved between the players lies with Evra (or Man Utd). This would then suggest that the reasons for Evra/Man Utd persuing this case are either an unwillingness to accept cultural differences as a reason, to save face (after the initial response after the match) or to persue an agenda against Suarez/Liverpool.

[Roboklopp]

Not sure you can say reference to skin colour is "backward" Norbs. Like it or not, the 1st thing people notice about another is predominantly their physical appearance, so most noticably their height, weight, complexion & hair colour. Now, it seems in the UK, wehave taken being "colour blind" in it's literal sense (almost denying different complexions exist in overt terms), whereas in South America it appears they embrace & celebrate the differences. On reflection, it seems their way is healthier.

Put it this way, I grew up being called (inaccurately) P@ki & with physical threats cos of the way I looked & I'd still go ****ing mental were that to happen now, but amongst workmates & that nowadays I get called Umpalumpa& stuff on occassion. Does it bother me? Nah, does it **** cos I know they dont see my skin colour as a positive or negative feature, so it's equivalent to calling me stumpy, dwarf, RamMan or any other of the crap I get (& believe me I give far worse back!)

I suppose my point is that if such things don't have negative connotations or sensitivities in the environment or culture you're in, then referencing them is completely natural & hardly "backward"- if anything, I find it far more progressive.


PS-Are you upset that once again Eddie Stobart is getting more coverage than you in this Channel 5 Eddie Stobart Xmas Deliveries programme??

[The_weatherman]

Really poor argument in that Jamaican newspaper article.

That piece is the kind of support that hurts Suarez' cause IMO.

Possibly, but if negro is an accepted word in spanish and they were speaking spanish, are british authorities now going to censor different languages?

[Nicey]

Really poor argument in that Jamaican newspaper article.

That piece is the kind of support that hurts Suarez' cause IMO.

I cannot seriously quite beleive the way the media is treating, Suarez, Evra and John Terry in all of this, its just so ****ing unfair its unreal. Its like waking up in some ****ing crazy universe were its everysingle person in the world is pretending the huge elephant in the room is not there.

And can somebody tell me why Evra uses a race laced slur first and not single mention of that in the press, no ****ing ex cuntish players .. god knows we have cornered the market in that sector, getting there chubby digits out to spout out some remedial drivel, whilst publications like the ****ing Gaurdian, take the Englands brave John Terry is holding out throughout all of this difficult time, he even suddenly is giving his shirt off his back to cripples ... you could not make this **** up

[Exiled_red]

Yep. As far as I can see, everyone involved has lost out in this except for those who have used the case to score political points.

[Nicey]

Possibly, but if negro is an accepted word in spanish and they were speaking spanish, are british authorities now going to censor different languages?

Another central issue I have with all of this

[Reece]

Even the right honourable George Gallaway was on about it last night. Said that Dalglish had made a grave error of judgement in backing Suarez and that it "confirmed things he had thought about him as a person for a long time"

(Although he did commend him on his handling of the Hillsborough aftermath).