Evra accuses Suarez of racism

[TheElephantMan]

It does seem confusing, but we're hardly in a position to judge. I'd love to live in a society where our differences can be acknowledged without being considered offensive. If I understand the situation in South America then we're the ones with the problem and we have some catching up to do.

[Rabiosa]

Here's how it will play out.

1. For the next 2 weeks until the report comes out, Suarez will he harried, abused and slated relentlessly by fans and the press.

2. The FA report will come out and will be a non-event, there will be nothing concrete in it. Liverpool will appeal.

3. The ban will be reduced, the FA will issue some sort of conciliatory remark that will reduce Suarez's guilt without clearing him completely. This remark will not make its way into the newspapers.

4. All news about 3. above will be hidden in small font deep within the newspapers - there will be no headlines. If any paper needs to apologize for slander it will be hidden away so completely only a miner with a headlight on would find it.

5. The average yob fan will still continue to harrass and abuse Suarez with " racist"

And then after all of that, he will get a 4 match ban for Swearing at Fulham fans

[Fosterbloke]

I bet no one bats an eyelid if you call them Gringo.

[Red_Polo]

Everyone I have engaged in discussion with seem to think that Suarez has called Evra a ******. I'm sorry for using that word, but people need to be made aware that Suarez did not use that word - Suarez did not use a word which is deemed racist in our country or any other. That is a fact. It's pissing me off because the lack of information is fuelling the ignorant crap that people are spouting. If the FA weren't so incompetent the full details of their report would be available and there wouldn't be so much conjecture. I really feel for Luis right now, this is incredibly frustrating.

Yeah there's a lot of people making pretty simplistic analogies to draw their conclusion. Like you say, incredibly frustrating.

To sum up in a nutshell I'm getting the confusing message from him that

a) negrito implies that being black is not a good characteristic
b) that this has no racial element to it.

I don't get that. It's confusing to me in the extreme but seems straightforward and natural as an explanation to my friend.

Wouldn't mind hearing anyone else's take on this who can offer an explanation of those two apparently competing ideas, especially anyone who has experience of South American culture and/or the Spanish language.

Agree with most of what you've said in the last few posts. Just thought I'd add my two penneth about the word negrito...

It's implication that being black is not a good characteristic is a bit deceptive. It doesn't carry any more weight than the similar usage of words literally meaning blondie/fatty, it's meaning is tied up with the habitual remarking on appearance in a familiar jocular way in that culture, rather than connoting any ideas of racial inferiority. Worth noting that the word can be applied to people who have a relatively dark complexion and dark hair but are not black.

In terms of context, my understanding is very much in line with what you were saying about the diminutive being the insulting part. Overly familiar in the same way you might call someone you barely know who insults you, 'pal', to brush off their jibes. As you say, we don't know whether what was being said was uttered in a placating tone or otherwise. The crucial point though, is that either way it needn't have had racist connotations.

[baitman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negrito

he term "Negrito" is the Spanish diminutive of negro, i.e. "little black person", referring to their small stature, and was coined by early European explorers.

Occasionally, some Negritos are referred to as pygmies, bundling them with peoples of similar physical stature in Central Africa, and likewise, the term Negrito was previously occasionally used to refer to African Pygmies.

and...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro

The word Negro is used in the English-speaking world to refer to a person of black ancestry or appearance, whether of African descent or not. The word negro means 'black' in Spanish and Portuguese.
The usage was accepted as normal, even by people classified as Negroes, until the later Civil Rights movement in the late 1960s. One well-known example is the identification by Martin Luther King, Jr. of his own race as 'Negro' in his famous 1963 speech I Have a Dream.

It is similar to the use of the word "nigga" in urban communities in the United States. For example, one might say to a friend, "Negro ¿Como andas? (literally "Hey, black one, how are you doing?"). In this case, the diminutive negrito is used, as a term of endearment meaning "pal", "buddy" or "friend". Negrito has come to be used to refer to a person of any ethnicity or color, and also can have a sentimental or romantic connotation similar to "sweetheart," or "dear" in English.

[MrMichael]

To sum up in a nutshell I'm getting the confusing message from him that

a) negrito implies that being black is not a good characteristic
b) that this has no racial element to it.

I don't get that. It's confusing to me in the extreme but seems straightforward and natural as an explanation to my friend.

Wouldn't mind hearing anyone else's take on this who can offer an explanation of those two apparently competing ideas, especially anyone who has experience of South American culture and/or the Spanish language.

My, completely uneducated regarding the Spanish language & South America, take on this is that "negrito", or otherwise reported as having been "negrita" appears to be a term that could be used as either affectionate or patronising, depending on context. If the latter it is obviously feminine, and perhaps best translated as "little black girl", although the "black" bit carries the same lack of specifically racist undertones as "negro" does in that particular cultural context, ie it is purely descriptive.

Now there can be little doubt that Suarez was not using the word affectionately. I believe, if this was a term he used, he was indeed being patronising, and even insulting (in response to a derogatory word used towards him by Evra), however the patronising & insulting bit was intended as the "little girl" or "little boy" part. This, I think, will be the justification that the FA give for their decision, that Suarez was being insulting, and as part of this made reference to Evra's race, thus breaching the sule he was charged under. That in its original form it was simply not racially offensive in intent or in standard linguistic use seems to have been completely lost on them. That doesn't mean it was entirely right for Suarez to use it, but it also means that simply throwing the book at him to prove a wider point is very misplaced.

[mothman]

Everyone I have engaged in discussion with seem to think that Suarez has called Evra a ******. I'm sorry for using that word, but people need to be made aware that Suarez did not use that word - Suarez did not use a word which is deemed racist in our country or any other. That is a fact. It's pissing me off because the lack of information is fuelling the ignorant crap that people are spouting. If the FA weren't so incompetent the full details of their report would be available and there wouldn't be so much conjecture. I really feel for Luis right now, this is incredibly frustrating.

Here is the rub. 99% of people think this is what Suarez called Evra, and this is what the newspapers are peddling. When it all comes out in the wash and the newspapers publish the FA report it will all be hidden away, no one will comment and all the hacks will be talking about something else. A racist tag is very hard to lose - kind of like a falsely accused pedophile.

[Nicey]

**** them all this will blow over but only on our ****ing terms !!

meanwhile those shower of cunts over a football 365 are running a player of the year poll our Louie is running at 30 %

http://www.football365.com/

[Neil Young]

The FA's stance on racism:

We British are revered throughout the world for having the highest moral position on racism and if someone from beyond these shores doesn't do things our way, well, what can you expect of a dirty foreigner?

[little dave hedgehog]

The FA's stance on racism:

We British are revered throughout the world for having the highest moral position on racism and if someone from beyond these shores doesn't do things our way, well, what can you expect of a dirty foreigner?

in fairness, people from other countries are little better than chimpanzees. that's why they're always on the discovery channel.

[little dave hedgehog]

The Argentine team paid tribute to Fernando Caceres, former footballer who is fighting for his life after receiving a bullet wound when criminals attempted to steal his car. The players unfurled a blue and white banner that read “Fuerza Negro”.

[Kenneth]

The FA's stance on racism:

We British are revered throughout the world for having the highest moral position on racism and if someone from beyond these shores doesn't do things our way, well, what can you expect of a dirty foreigner?

New sig I think.

[Exiled_red]

If the FA had released their report at the same time as the verdict then we wouldn't have all the damaging speculation and conjecture. Why can't they just enlighten us? I want to know the truth. I don't believe for a second that Suarez is a racist, I believe that he is completely innocent. I want to know the facts, the FA have handled this abysmally.

For me that is the bottom line

[Exiled_red]

The FA's stance on racism:

We British are revered throughout the world for having the highest moral position on racism and if someone from beyond these shores doesn't do things our way, well, what can you expect of a dirty foreigner?

That basically seems to be it, as I mentioned before not just in a football sense but the general reaction of people seems to be that any culture which has different opinions to ours is inherently racist. This is a worrying intolerant attitude for what is supposedly a diverse, multicultural society.

[Muddled]

To sum up in a nutshell I'm getting the confusing message from him that

a) negrito implies that being black is not a good characteristic
b) that this has no racial element to it.

I don't get that. It's confusing to me in the extreme but seems straightforward and natural as an explanation to my friend.

Wouldn't mind hearing anyone else's take on this who can offer an explanation of those two apparently competing ideas, especially anyone who has experience of South American culture and/or the Spanish language.

Apologies if already posted.

Negrito in Spanish, translates roughly as Little Black Man, or Little Black.

'ito' added to a word, makes it little *something*; for example, Senorita is Little Girl.

My take on it, is that the tone of his response to Evra was more to do with 'little' than the use of the word 'black'; the adjective to deride Evra was little, with the negro element used as more factual. But this is when it gets hazy for me, as I don't understand the South American influence.

EDIT: MrMichael is all over it.