Evra accuses Suarez of racism

[wavydavy]

Oliver Holt attempting damage limitation.Trying to alter his position on this subject?


OllieHoltMirrorOliver Holt


Excellent piece by @RorySmithTimes on The Anfield Wrap. Makes a lot of interesting points over Suarez Affair




11 hours ago via webFavoriteRetweetReply

[Exiled_red]

Possibly, but if negro is an accepted word in spanish and they were speaking spanish, are british authorities now going to censor different languages?

Only when it suits them

[Nicey]

Not sure you can say reference to skin colour is "backward" Norbs. Like it or not, the 1st thing people notice about another is predominantly their physical appearance, so most noticably their height, weight, complexion & hair colour. Now, it seems in the UK, wehave taken being "colour blind" in it's literal sense (almost denying different complexions exist in overt terms), whereas in South America it appears they embrace & celebrate the differences. On reflection, it seems their way is healthier.

Put it this way, I grew up being called (inaccurately) P@ki & with physical threats cos of the way I looked & I'd still go ****ing mental were that to happen now, but amongst workmates & that nowadays I get called Umpalumpa& stuff on occassion. Does it bother me? Nah, does it **** cos I know they dont see my skin colour as a positive or negative feature, so it's equivalent to calling me stumpy, dwarf, RamMan or any other of the crap I get (& believe me I give far worse back!)

I suppose my point is that if such things don't have negative connotations or sensitivities in the environment or culture you're in, then referencing them is completely natural & hardly "backward"- if anything, I find it far more progressive.


PS-Are you upset that once again Eddie Stobart is getting more coverage than you in this Channel 5 Eddie Stobart Xmas Deliveries programme??

Superb post *****

[Nicey]

Even the right honourable George Gallaway was on about it last night. Said that Dalglish had made a grave error of judgement in backing Suarez and that it "confirmed things he had thought about him as a person for a long time"

(Although he did commend him on his handling of the Hillsborough aftermath).

Says the cunt who went on national TV and pretended to be a cat drinking milk out of a bowl when he was the wrong side of 50. Yeah sound George

[Exiled_red]

Even the right honourable George Gallaway was on about it last night. Said that Dalglish had made a grave error of judgement in backing Suarez and that it "confirmed things he had thought about him as a person for a long time"

(Although he did commend him on his handling of the Hillsborough aftermath).

[Red_Polo]

Possibly, but if negro is an accepted word in spanish and they were speaking spanish, are british authorities now going to censor different languages?

Well, I wouldn't have a problem with that as long as they were able to do it right. Which of course in this case they haven't.

[Neil Young]

Why?

It might in English, because we wouldn't reference someone's colour like that unless we were making a point about it, but in most Spanish speaking countries that is not the case. It is normal, throwaway, unoffensive, and completely on par with their jocular usage of blondie/fatty. I think we struggle to get past the basic point that the word black is not loaded to them the way it is for us. Like that article said, it's as pedestrian as reference to height.

I don't blame Evra for taking offence at all, btw, simple misunderstanding anyone could make.

I agree it's a misunderstanding but the fact the associations can change when the word is translated does not mean those associations are somehow irrelevant.

Btw the diminutive doesn't make the word offensive, it adds a more affectionate tone. Any insult comes from the patronising over familiarity that might represent in the context.

Like calling a black man "boy" perhaps?

Come on, it's not as simple as just adding familiarity. Evra can't be blamed for hearing it with far less innocent connotations.

However he could have given the benefit of the doubt to Suarez since he has said he thinks Suarez isn't racist.

Absolutely. I have no doubt that Evra fely racially insulted by Suarez' language, just as I also have no doubt that Suarez was not intending to racially insult Evra. Patronise, almost certainly, insult even, but not abuse on the basis of his race, despite its reference in the term he used. Were the conversation to have taken place in English this distinction would not be relevant, but it didn't, and it is.

Whether Suarez felt similarily insulted by Evra is by-the-by really. The issue with this whole thing for me is that it is absolutely not a black & white issue (pun unintended), yet the manner in which it has been delt with by all concerned has made it one in the minds of almost everybody.

[The_weatherman]

Well, I wouldn't have a problem with that as long as they were able to do it right. Which of course in this case they haven't.

I would never think it right or fair to censor other languages, I think this case will put some players off England to be honest. If we are going to achieve a multicultural society, never mind where, we have to accept the cultural differences to a point. Of course some differences will not be tolerated if they break the law but I think if we censor languages we could just create a subculture where they don't integrate society and don't even try to.

[Roboklopp]

Really poor argument in that Jamaican newspaper article.

That piece is the kind of support that hurts Suarez' cause IMO.

[FA rep/] Well what do you expect from ignorant West Indians? [FA rep/]

[Red_Polo]

I agree it's a misunderstanding but the fact the associations can change when the word is translated does not mean those associations are somehow irrelevant.


Like calling a black man "boy" perhaps?

Come on, it's not as simple as just adding familiarity. Evra can't be blamed for hearing it with far less innocent connotations.

However he could have given the benefit of the doubt to Suarez since he has said he thinks Suarez isn't racist.

I never said the associations we might have with the word are irrelevant, just that we cannot be so arrogant as to affect changes to meanings in their language for them; our associations have no bearing on the authentic meaning, only on the perceived one.

Why like calling a black man 'boy'? There is absolutely nothing about the way the word is used (completely in line with similar expressions) that suggests this to me, what about it's usage leads you to suggest this?

You keep coming back to not blaming Evra for taking offence. Well, I can only repeat myself and say I don't blame him for taking offence, but that has no bearing on the actual meaning of what Suarez said.

[Red_Polo]

I would never think it right or fair to censor other languages, I think this case will put some players off England to be honest. If we are going to achieve a multicultural society, never mind where, we have to accept the cultural differences to a point. Of course some differences will not be tolerated if they break the law but I think if we censor languages we could just create a subculture where they don't integrate society and don't even try to.

I'm not sure whether or not we're talking about the same thing here

If you mean the FA shouldn't ban players from speaking foreign languages on the pitch then yeah I'm with you all the way. But if someone said to Evra in Spanish 'you are ****ing black scum go back to the jungle' then I don't think the FA should be completely powerless because it's not in English.

[dom9]

Sky have confirmed that Suarez is the winner.

http://www.skysports.com/tv_show/sto..._12384,00.html

In your face Dom

You can expect lots of shakey head smilies coming your way from Dom for that! Unfortunatley Est does'nt have a 'Befuddled' smiley.

Well done guys. You taught 'em.

[dom9]

I'm surprised Ballague hasn't piped up on this yet.

[The_weatherman]

I'm not sure whether or not we're talking about the same thing here

If you mean the FA shouldn't ban players from speaking foreign languages on the pitch then yeah I'm with you all the way. But if someone said to Evra in Spanish 'you are ****ing black scum go back to the jungle' then I don't think the FA should be completely powerless because it's not in English.

Ahh, that makes more sense

[ChesterDave]

He can't have it both ways, if he want's respect, show respect, and don't go filming yourself shouting N***** out of a hotel window, because one day...someone might decide they are offended by that, and then he'd have to explain how in his culture..it's ok for him to say it!

But its OK for Evra to say that, its culturally acceptable to him and not offensive.. oh wait...