Evra accuses Suarez of racism

[ChesterDave]

163. The FA instructed the experts to prepare a written report on the various linguistic and
cultural interpretations of the word "negro" or "negros" in Latin American Spanish and
especially Spanish as spoken in the River Plate region (castellano rioplatense).
164. The experts who were instructed are Professor Peter Wade and Dr James Scorer who are
both affiliated to the Centre for Latin American and Caribbean Studies at the University of
Manchester.

[wavydavy]

The ****ing timing. Why now FFS?

[Shanks]

@henrywinter Not many obvious grounds for appeal, though lfc lawyers could re-visit Point 223 about whether Suarez is a racist or used racist language.

223

Mr Greaney emphasised the limited nature of this task in his opening written argument
for the FA as follows:
"First, this case is not about whether Mr Suarez is in fact a racist.
Indeed, the Commission will no doubt conclude that there are some indications that he is not.
For example, Mr Suarez is himself of mixed heritage, it seems clear that he has
experienced the diversity of life and it is plain from the materials submitted on his behalf that he has done good work in the field of community relations. Moreover,even Mr Evra says in his witness statement:
"I don't think that Luis Suarez is racist".
However, the question is not whether Mr Suarez is in fact a racist.
Rather the question is whether, on 15th October 2011, for whatever reason, Mr Suarez used language and behaviour which was racially offensive.
This is an important difference and, we submit, that the Commission will need to take care to ensure that the questions it answers at the end of these proceedings are the narrow questions posed by the charge and not any broader question as to the personal attitude of Mr Suarez

[TheElephantMan]

163. The FA instructed the experts to prepare a written report on the various linguistic and
cultural interpretations of the word "negro" or "negros" in Latin American Spanish and
especially Spanish as spoken in the River Plate region (castellano rioplatense).
164. The experts who were instructed are Professor Peter Wade and Dr James Scorer who are
both affiliated to the Centre for Latin American and Caribbean Studies at the University of
Manchester.

not that it makes any difference, but that did make me laugh!

[Exiled_red]

Paragraph 159... "Mr Evra added, in his supplemental statement, that when he answered the question, he mentioned that a word had been said to him ten times. He told us that he did not mean this in the literal sense, it was just a way of talking. In French, he said, it is common to say something like "more than 10 times" but for you not to mean that it was actually over 10 times. It was just a figure of speech."

As Luis has found out. What is commonplace in your country counts for **** in England.

**** off

[ChesterDave]

Experts' observations about the use of the word "negro" in Uruguay and Latin America
167. According to the experts, the Spanish word "negro" cannot simply be translated as
"******". Whereas "******" refers exclusively to a person with dark skin, "negro" can be
used both as a noun ("a black") and as an adjective; as an adjective it might be used to refer
to a person ("un hombre negro" [a black man]) but equally to an object ("una caja negra" [a
black box]).
168. It is important to grasp that the word "negro" is ambiguous in all countries and regions of
Latin America.
169. In Uruguay and other areas of Latin America, some people who self-identify as black
object to the use of the word "negro" as a term of address, as they say it highlights skin
colour when this should be irrelevant; they point out that the term "blanco" [white] is
46
rarely used in this fashion. Others, however, actively claim the term "negro" as a political
identity, seeking to overturn its possible negative connotations.
170. The word "negro" can have pejorative connotations, as it may be associated with low class
status, ugliness, vulgar behaviour, noisiness, violence, dishonesty, sexual promiscuity etc.
In the River Plate region, for example, "los negros" is sometimes employed as a general
term for the lower classes and especially for lower-class people whose behaviour is
deemed vulgar and not "respectable".
171. Thus, the word can be employed with the intent to offend and to offend in racial terms;often the word would be appended with further insult, as in the example "negro de
mierda" [****ty black].
172. The word "negro" is by no means, however, always used offensively. The term can also be
used as a friendly form of address to someone seen as somewhat brown-skinned or even
just black-haired. It may be used affectionately between man and wife, or
girlfriend/boyfriend, it may be used as a nickname in everyday speech, it may be used to
identify in neutral and descriptive fashion someone of dark skin; several famous people in
Uruguay are known as "el negro/la negra such-and-such".
173."Negro" can be used in the same way that other words referring to physical characteristics
are used as descriptors for particular individuals, eg "el flaco" [the thin one/beanpole] or
"el gordo" [the fat one/fatso]; these words can also be used without the article, eg "hola,
gordo" [hi, fatso] or "chau, flaco" [bye, beanpole]; thus, a group of friends waiting for
another friend might exclaim "mira, ahi viene el negro" [look, here comes the black
one/blackie].
174. In Latin America, other terms may be used in ways that sound odd to a European ear. In
Colombia, the word "mono" (literally, "monkey") is used to address light-skinned people
or people whose hair is lighter than pure black. In Mexico, the word "güero" is used to
address blond or light-haired people. In many areas, the word "moreno" [brown] may be
used as a term of address in similar ways to "negro".
175. Though these terms are often used between friends or relatives, they are not used
exclusively so; thus, an individual might call out to a passer-by "ay, negro, querés jugar
con nosotros?" [hey, blackie, do you want to play with us?]; in all cases, however, when
the word is used in this way it implies a sense of rapport or the attempt to create such
rapport; naturally, if the term were used with a sneer, then it might carry some of the
negative connotations referred to above.
176. In Latin America more widely, the term "negro" can be used to refer to any person
perceived to have darker skin than the user of the word; in the River Plate region, the
word is also sometimes used to refer to someone with very dark hair.

[Chris]

I'd be very, very interested to know what time the club got the report. Wonder if it was about 2.40pm when the final whistle at Old Trafford was blowing.

[Lee]

Hold on.

Evra said that Suarez called him this name ten times, but he didn't really?! Sound, sound reasoning is that.

[Exiled_red]

Hold on.

Evra said that Suarez called him this name ten times, but he didn't really?! Sound, sound reasoning is that.

What is even more crazy is that after saying that the FA still regard his version of events more reliable than Suarez'.

We're not going to get this overturned as we're not dealing with rational people

[Leyton388]

**** it just send Carra in to break the ****ers legs when we play them again.

[Lee]

What is even more crazy is that after saying that the FA still regard his version of events more reliable than Suarez'.

We're not going to get this overturned as we're not dealing with rational people

It's shocking isn't it mate. Would you take evidence from this man?

329. The first of these was the coin toss. Mr Evra was seen to dispute the outcome of the coin toss with the referee. Mr Marriner explained that he used a FIFA coin which is blue on one side and yellow on the other. He asked Mr Evra, as the visiting captain, to call the colour.
Mr Marriner tossed the coin, it came down yellow, and he awarded it to Steven Gerrard who elected to stay in their current ends. Manchester United had kick off. Mr Evra remonstrated that he had called correctly but, Mr Marriner said, he had not. Mr Evra then spoke to Ryan Giggs about it, and Mr Marriner walked over to Mr Evra to assure him that he (Mr Marriner) had got it right. Mr Evra's evidence was that when such a coin was used, he always called yellow given that the alternative, blue, is a Manchester City colour, which he would never call. The toss came down yellow and so Mr Evra knew that he had won it. He particularly wanted to change ends at the start, he explained to the referee that he had called yellow, and why he had done so. Mr Evra was angry but the referee did not change his mind.

****. Right. Off.

[paulc]

**** it just send Carra in to break the ****ers legs when we play them again.

where does this reputation carra is supposed to have come from?
hes not a dirty or hard man player

[TheElephantMan]

Seven times or ten times, doesn't matter really. If the offending word was used seven times there must be some video evidence. I haven't read any of the report, getting ready to go out - I don't want to get wound up on New Years Eve!

[Lee]

where does this reputation carra is supposed to have come from?
hes not a dirty or hard man player

I think it's from his book when he made reference to Rigobert Song and Lucas Neill.

[Leyton388]

where does this reputation carra is supposed to have come from?
hes not a dirty or hard man player

No he's not but he is the one defender we could use to do the job and not suffer as a result as he can't get in the team. Would rather Carra break the ****ers legs and get a suspension rather than Agger or Skrtel.