Evra accuses Suarez of racism

[Neil Young]

So ridicule and insult of things people have no control over is OK, so long as the group hasnt been enslved at some point in history?

I'd agree it's not very polite but still it's totally different, yes.

Your mistake is thinking racism is purely about a physical attribute - it isn't, there's a political context there.

Unless you're getting into the whole debate about the importance of physical beauty (which I doubt) then there's no political context to being a bit goofy in the teeth department.

[Neil Young]

Maybe so but it's bad timing imo.

It may,MAY be tolerated in normal circumstances but the guy has been kicked from pilar to post recently from everyone jumping on the bandwagon,I think he deserves a break without cheap personal insults

I agree of course but this is a tabloid we're talking about - sensitivity for the feelings of others is never high on their agenda. Slag them off by all means but let's not equate it to discrimination.

[malg]

Scum mirror all parasites.

[JHP]

If you can point out a period in history, anywhere in the world, let alone in this country, when the normal-jawed have enslaved the goofy then I'll concede you may have a valid point.

I fully understand you point but in relation to Suarez has there been a time when mixed race have enslaved blacks?

[kop-al-74]

This whole thing has really got out of hand.Someone I play football with sent me text the other day,trying to be funny,saying something to the effect of Kenny will next send out the team wearing t shirts with Norris and Dobson on them.

He obviously thought it was funny and is the type of simple minded,believe whataever The S** writes type of person....I phoned him up and had a right go at him.Infact I told him that he isn't welcome to come football anymore.He thought I was totaly overeacting and that it was only a joke and that I can't take a joke.

The fact is though this whole saga has left me feeling really defensive and I almost find myself having to justify the reasons I continue to support Liverpool to almost everyone other than Liverpool supporters.

It has really been an exhausting few weeks being a true Liverpool supporter.

[Patricks_Berger]

Please don't jump on the same bandwagon as those we vilify for wrongly accusing one of us. Look a little further and try to understand the context in which she used the statement. Yes, for an experienced politician she was foolish but she wasn't being racist.

She definitely was being racist.

[Neil Young]

I fully understand you point but in relation to Suarez has there been a time when mixed race have enslaved blacks?

Er no, but that wasn't the point. People were equating being rude about someone because their teeth are a bit big with racism.

The fact it's Suarez they were talking about doesn't blur that fundamental distinction.

[Neil Young]

She definitely was being racist.

It's not definite at all. It depends on how narrow is your choice of context.

[Craig_H]

Neil, in your opinion, can a case of racism ever exist, where the perpetrator is black and the target is white? Or would you never see it as racism, because black people were enslaved by white people? If it can exist in your view, could you give me an idea of what would need to have happened for it to be racist in your opinion?

Just wondering.

[Patricks_Berger]

What' the colour of my skin got to do with it. Is that not racist?

Regarding Abbott her choice of words was clumsy , and as an MP she should be more careful. But in this discussion, she is clearly referring to "white people" as a political force in the context of 19th century colonialism, not making generalisations about the behaviour of individual white people today.

You really are an obnoxious creature and from your comments I suspect a racist.

I read her comment as placing all "White people", today, in a homogenous group who act to surpress the black community by employing tactics used by some white people, and in reality people of all creeds, to subjugate others in the 19th century.

The effect is to attribute common characteristics & behaviour to a group of people on the basis of the colour of their skin. I understand that to be racism.

If a white politician had made an equivalent statement they would, quite correctly, have been labelled a racist & sacked. So what is the difference.

As a society I think we are confused. Opposing racism is NOT about one groups guilt for the injustices of the past. We must oppose racism because it's ****ing stupid.

[JHP]

I read her comment as placing all "White people", today, in a homogenous group who act to surpress the black community by employing tactics used by some white people, and in reality people of all creeds, to subjugate others in the 19th century.

The effect is to attribute common characteristics & behaviour to a group of people on the basis of the colour of their skin. I understand that to be racism.

If a white politician had made an equivalent statement they would, quite correctly, have been labelled a racist & sacked. So what is the difference.

As a society I think we are confused. Opposing racism is NOT about one groups guilt for the injustices of the past. We must oppose racism because it's ****ing stupid.

If she was referring to today in the way you say then i would agree with you. But The point is that in the time she was referring to she is correct.

Therefore it would be wholly inappropriate to take the words out of context and call her racist from the words she used. Unless of course you wish to rewrite history.

[JHP]

Er no, but that wasn't the point. People were equating being rude about someone because their teeth are a bit big with racism.

The fact it's Suarez they were talking about doesn't blur that fundamental distinction.

As I said I understood your point. The point I was making is that if there is a requirement for there to have been some enslavement for subsequent actions to be labelled racist when did mixed race enslave blacks for Suarez to be considered racist?

[bonzai]

Thread should be locked, we're going nowhere with this now.

[Fivex]

Neil, in your opinion, can a case of racism ever exist, where the perpetrator is black and the target is white? Or would you never see it as racism, because black people were enslaved by white people? If it can exist in your view, could you give me an idea of what would need to have happened for it to be racist in your opinion?

Just wondering.

Heh

[wavydavy]

Thread should be locked, we're going nowhere with this now.

Are you ****ing kidding? I wanna see Neil's response to the Craigster's probing.