Kenny isn't what we need

[Arn]

He means why would FSG give him more money to spend when he has already wasted a shocking amount of money?

They will look at players like Downing, Henderson and Carroll and ask themselves if he improved them if they are value for money and if we can trust him in the transfer market again?

The answer is no.

I don't know why they should back Kenny again when his record in the transfer market so far is simply shocking.

£20m for Downing
£35m for Carroll
£20m for Henderson

Only two players have been value for money, Suarez and Enrique. Coates is to early to say.

That is a long way from being good enough.

[Craig_H]

have to agree on the aguero point.

generally speaking the big names come here if there is CL football.

We dont have CL football and we will not and can not pay city wages.

Cant agree there mate, FSG are entirely minted and they certainly can pay £200k wages (not to everyone obviously, but if it's needed and considered worthwhile, they can). They may not think it's worthwhile and that's their decision to make, but i dont for one minute think they 'cant' pay it.

[Vermilion]

Level on points with Spurs, but they have two games in hand, these dropped points against lesser opposition are killing us, at this rate, come the end of the season, we'll be lucky to finish 5th, but with a big 'gap' to 4th.

[Craig_H]

i think fsg will stick by their man for a time, but i agree that if this drags on too long, he will come under pressure. which is fair enough i think, the way to relieve pressure is to win matches, and if that doesn't happen, we have to look after the club.

i'll say it though. i do think that rafa would have us in a better position now with the backing of fsg. still want kenny to succeed though.

We'd have probably signed Martinez instead of Henderson and maybe Llorente instead of Carroll.

Good thing or bad thing is open to debate, but Rafa would've probably gone quite spanish as you'd expect, just like Kenny went mainly british.

[Craig_H]

I'm not a big fan of most of his signings except Enrique and I voiced my opinion about it few times but let's look at obvious facts.

He picked up Carroll cause he needed a striker after El Cuntino left and Carroll was the one of the most promising strikers, and played really well before the injury, that was available during January transfer window and he seemed the logical choice in those circumstances. Not the price but the player himself.

Downing was the best Villa player last year and English International and the winger that we needed for a long time and I can get that buy too.

Adam, for the most of the last season, was revelation at Blackpool and missing out on the move in January affected his game but still pretty player to consider.

Enrique turned to be a great buy so no need to talk about him.

Hendo is the only one that I was really puzzled by as there was no need to go after him this early but he felt that he may miss out on him so fine.

The bottom line he went with British based proven players, for the most part, as he tried to minimize the risk and I don't think he could have predicted that most of those will play so poorly thus far and literally let him down.

Not sure if that's a fact, let alone an obvious one

[Craig_H]

Rafa wasn't given time if you don't count time together with people like Moores, Parry, Gillett, Hicks and Purslow as time.

I don't.

He was never given a fair chance, not even once.

You can't compare the support from FSG with the jokes we had before.

The owners we have now back the manager 100%. Moores, Parry, Gillett, Hicks and Purslow didn't back the manager a single percent. Maybe one percent if I'm being nice.

Much as i love the way you quantify the percentages, didnt Moores loan the club money, from his own pocket, to sign Kuyt? (Who Rafa wanted, BTW).

Is that not worth a couple point 4 of a percentage?

[Maxiedge]

If you look at all of the big spenders, there have been mistakes and over-spending involved. It's part and parcel of rebuilding.

Yeah maybe we overpaid for Carroll, Henderson, and Downing but at least they're not utter ****e like some of the players Rafa and Hodgson added to the squad. We're still rebuilding from their mistakes IMO.

[CJ]

Cant agree there mate, FSG are entirely minted and they certainly can pay £200k wages (not to everyone obviously, but if it's needed and considered worthwhile, they can). They may not think it's worthwhile and that's their decision to make, but i dont for one minute think they 'cant' pay it.

Yeah i agree there but there is the financial fair play rules. I also think that yes obviously on a one off basis they can but then other players may have deals that peg their wage to the highest or maybe even say they are the highest.

but yeah i take your point and cant really disagree

[Craig_H]

I'm not at all convinced about the FFP rules being properly enforced.

[Craig_H]

If you look at all of the big spenders, there have been mistakes and over-spending involved. It's part and parcel of rebuilding.

Yeah maybe we overpaid for Carroll, Henderson, and Downing but at least they're not utter ****e like some of the players Rafa and Hodgson added to the squad. We're still rebuilding from their mistakes IMO.

Rafa only really cocked up twice with big signings - Keane & Aquilani.

And i'd still rather have Aquilani than Henderson just now.

[Corndog]

Horrible thread, its not been an ideal start to the season but i just can't accept the argument that kenny is "past it"......he has won leagues before as a player and manager, and for that reason alone (regardless of the fact he is a club hero) i did believe and still do believe that there are very few other managerial candidates who could be a better fit. Football tactics change over time, but that does not render his knowledge useless at all, the experience he has cannot be lost.

I think it was Brian Clough who said that its not tactics that wins you games, its the players and i am a firm believer in that. Yes tactics can have an effect but the bottom line is if the players don't go out there and perform it doesn't matter whether you are playing 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 because it wont make a difference.

the players in general have not performed to there potential so far, the new signings have probably not gelled as well or as quickly as would have been ideal. Of course Dalglish is partly responsible for bringing them to the club and like any manager now-a-days will probably live or die by there transfer deals.On that point i'd like to reiterate something i believed before the season and that was that even though some of the new signings would not have been my personal preference i felt they were probably the most 'low-risk' transfers, after watching downing for villa last year and carroll for newcastle who was to know that they would not continue that form with lfc right away.

you can say we should have signed others, but its a futile argument because nobody can ever be 100% certain o whether any players transfer will be successful or not.

The majority of the team bar some like suarez, enrique, bellamy etc. have let him down in regards to not getting the result.

[Fernandinho]

Horrible thread, its not been an ideal start to the season but i just can't accept the argument that kenny is "past it"......he has won leagues before as a player and manager, and for that reason alone (regardless of the fact he is a club hero) i did believe and still do believe that there are very few other managerial candidates who could be a better fit. Football tactics change over time, but that does not render his knowledge useless at all, the experience he has cannot be lost.

I think it was Brian Clough who said that its not tactics that wins you games, its the players and i am a firm believer in that. Yes tactics can have an effect but the bottom line is if the players don't go out there and perform it doesn't matter whether you are playing 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 because it wont make a difference.

the players in general have not performed to there potential so far, the new signings have probably not gelled as well or as quickly as would have been ideal. Of course Dalglish is partly responsible for bringing them to the club and like any manager now-a-days will probably live or die by there transfer deals.On that point i'd like to reiterate something i believed before the season and that was that even though some of the new signings would not have been my personal preference i felt they were probably the most 'low-risk' transfers, after watching downing for villa last year and carroll for newcastle who was to know that they would not continue that form with lfc right away.

you can say we should have signed others, but its a futile argument because nobody can ever be 100% certain o whether any players transfer will be successful or not.

The majority of the team bar some like suarez, enrique, bellamy etc. have let him down in regards to not getting the result.

[Arn]

Getting the tactics right is much more important now than 10+ years ago

Why? Almost every manager out there use clips, videos and so on to look how the opposition play. If you have a weakness then you can be very sure that the opposition know about it. That wasn't the case 10 years ago. Then you could easily get away making tactical mistakes.

We have a big weakness when Carra play and it is being used against us all the time by pressing him when he have the ball. Playing Adam and Lucas in the middle is used against us by playing the ball around because Adam isn't mobile enough.

Playing Carroll is used against us because he isn't mobile enough to put any early pressure on the opposition.

The opposition know that they won't be any surprises and can thanks to that set up a tactic.

If we want to dominate and win games then we must respect the opposition more than we do know. We must make us more unpredictable and more difficult to read. We must use the weaknesses that the opposition have more than we do now.

We should for example stopped Swansea from playing the ball around at the back the way they did yesterday but we didn't. We didn't respect their strength and thought yet again that we will win the match anyway.

[Mattshark]

I think it was Brian Clough who said that its not tactics that wins you games, its the players and i am a firm believer in that.

To be fair, I think it was that idea that lad to Forest's decline under Clough too, over simplified.

[Corndog]

Getting the tactics right is much more important now than 10+ years ago

Why? Almost every manager out there use clips, videos and so on to look how the opposition play. If you have a weakness then you can be very sure that the opposition know about it. That wasn't the case 10 years ago. Then you could easily get away making tactical mistakes.

We have a big weakness when Carra play and it is being used against us all the time by pressing him when he have the ball. Playing Adam and Lucas in the middle is used against us by playing the ball around because Adam isn't mobile enough.

Playing Carroll is used against us because he isn't mobile enough to put any early pressure on the opposition.

The opposition know that they won't be any surprises and can thanks to that set up a tactic.

If we want to dominate and win games then we must respect the opposition more than we do know. We must make us more unpredictable and more difficult to read. We must use the weaknesses that the opposition have more than we do now.

We should for example stopped Swansea from playing the ball around at the back the way they did yesterday but we didn't. We didn't respect their strength and thought yet again that we will win the match anyway.

this is exactly what i'm talking about...i don't doubt tactics are important, and i agree with some of the points you make in this post....but if the players we signed played to the potential they have or even to what they did at there clubs prior to there lfc career it would not be an issue, because no matter the tactics we would dominate the majority of games. sometimes i think its all to easy to get sucked in to over-analysing situations ( in fact i think this was what Rafa did that made him great in the cL and less effective in the league)

the players have not performed, they have not done the basics well enough in certain games ie failing to convert goalscoring opportunities....so befor eu go way ahaead of yourself and say its not working because its 4-4-2 or some similar line of argument think about that. this is of course my opinion that players and their mentality is more crucial to winning games than tactics.

Tactics are no more important in todays game than they were decades ago....its just that they have been built up to be so crucial now-a-days..you're last point about them underestimating swansea is not a tactial issue its a mentality issue for the players and its there responsibility to have a proper mental state going into a game, kenny can try and drum that into them but its up to them at the end of the day.