Kenny isn't what we need

[Alex]

Weird one that. West Brom, we got stitched up by the ref (2 pens). We comfortably battered City. And we lost to Spurs when the prize for the winner was Europa League, not Champions League. I'm sure we didn't want Europa League and our hearts wouldn't have really been in it for that game.

Thats one of the most ridiculous things you have ever said. Are you honestly saying they went out there not bothered about winning.

[Neil Young]

Thats one of the most ridiculous things you have ever said. Are you honestly saying they went out there not bothered about winning.

There's a lot of competition.

[Craig_H]

Thats one of the most ridiculous things you have ever said. Are you honestly saying they went out there not bothered about winning.

There's such a thing as the subconscious that comes into play here. I'm not saying they were sat in the dressing room saying "let's lose today" but i dont think they put their heart and souls into the game either. Dismissing that notion entirely would indeed be a very ridiculous thing.

What i've said is quite clear and i dont think you actually read and interpreted my previous post properly.


Out of interest, did you see the game?

[Darkon]

We really need to get things in to perspective here. If we had just 1 clinical striker in our team nobody would be discussing formations and numbers IMO. We are just by far the most wastefull team up front right now, and we need someone to get the many chances on goals we have transfered in to proper goals. Only city have outdone us in creating chances, and yet we have scored few goals. This has nothing to do with us playing 442.

Sorry about format from c/p, but can't be bothered changing it.

Team Goals Shots On Target Shot Accuracy Succ Passes
Arsenal 20 125 59 47% 4395
Aston Villa 13 85 30 35% 2404
Blackburn Rovers 13 86 38 44% 2325
Bolton Wanderers 13 85 46 54% 2762
Chelsea 23 135 65 48% 4600
Everton 10 93 41 44% 2616
Fulham 13 100 47 47% 3358
Liverpool 14 132 53 40% 3680
Manchester City 36 166 79 48% 4692
Manchester United 27 115 61 53% 4032
Newcastle United 15 97 42 43% 2754
Norwich City 14 109 46 42% 2632
Queens Park Rangers 8 103 36 35% 2773
Stoke City 8 73 25 34% 2104
Sunderland 14 101 41 41% 2726
Swansea City 12 94 40 43% 4426
Tottenham Hotspur 18 119 62 52% 3405
West Bromwich Albion 9 90 40 44% 3001
Wigan Athletic 6 96 36 38% 3232
Wolverhampton Wanderers 9 124 50 40% 2979

[Alex]

What does it matter if I watched or not. Every sportsman wants to win, Ive not come across who didn't. There is such a thing as pride in defeat.

Your saying we didn't want Europa League. What, was that from the start of the season. **** or bust? Or did we decide when it was 2 or 3 games to go we didn't fancy it and would rather be out of Europe all together. I understood your post fully, there isn't really any ways to interpret it is there?

[Exiled_red]

I think alot of people on here last year were saying that if we didn't make the Champions League we'd be better off out of Europe all together.

Personally I think not being in Europe this season has hurt us, the Europa League would have given the team more time to gel and develop an understanding of the system and each other.

[BigChief]

Opposition fans are as prone to short-term thinking as Liverpool fans.

Oh **** this, what a waste of time.

Neil, agreed oppo fans are just as blinkered. That's why we're all on a forum of some sort.

I think you missed these parts of my post:

"Beat Chavs and City which I think we are absolutely capable of doing."

"However, this international break is much kinder and could be the turning point for Kenny. YNWA."

I think you're just too focused on the negative Neil. You need to chill out.

[Mattshark]

We really need to get things in to perspective here. If we had just 1 clinical striker in our team nobody would be discussing formations and numbers IMO. We are just by far the most wastefull team up front right now, and we need someone to get the many chances on goals we have transfered in to proper goals. Only city have outdone us in creating chances, and yet we have scored few goals. This has nothing to do with us playing 442.

Sorry about format from c/p, but can't be bothered changing it.

Team Goals Shots On Target Shot Accuracy Succ Passes
Arsenal 20 125 59 47% 4395
Aston Villa 13 85 30 35% 2404
Blackburn Rovers 13 86 38 44% 2325
Bolton Wanderers 13 85 46 54% 2762
Chelsea 23 135 65 48% 4600
Everton 10 93 41 44% 2616
Fulham 13 100 47 47% 3358
Liverpool 14 132 53 40% 3680
Manchester City 36 166 79 48% 4692
Manchester United 27 115 61 53% 4032
Newcastle United 15 97 42 43% 2754
Norwich City 14 109 46 42% 2632
Queens Park Rangers 8 103 36 35% 2773
Stoke City 8 73 25 34% 2104
Sunderland 14 101 41 41% 2726
Swansea City 12 94 40 43% 4426
Tottenham Hotspur 18 119 62 52% 3405
West Bromwich Albion 9 90 40 44% 3001
Wigan Athletic 6 96 36 38% 3232
Wolverhampton Wanderers 9 124 50 40% 2979

Sorry mate but I disagree, the majority of our chances are made by and taken by Suarez. We are not creating good opportunities throughout the rest of the team and we do give up far too much space in the centre of the pitch.

[doogle]

I think Kenny can take us forward BUT the purchase of Carroll and Downing may well be his downfall. Its a lot of money on very average players. as for Henderson he is still a young lad and things might happen for him.

Henderson
17 June 1990 (1990-06-17) (age 21)
Carroll
6 January 1989 (1989-01-06) (age 22)

[IN_RAFA_WE_TRUST]

I think kenny has been let down by some players,they need to step the duck up and start plaYing for our kenny.

[Arn]

I think kenny has been let down by some players,they need to step the duck up and start plaYing for our kenny.

I don't think he been let down by some players. I think that most of our players have almost never played a 4-4-2 system before. It takes time to learn a new system.

I don't have a clue to why Kenny decided to start using a new system this season. I would understand why if we had played in the Europa league and by that way playing more games.

Now we must use a lot of league games as a way to get the players learning the new system.

You can clearly see that the players is learning the new system. Agger talked about headless chickens for example. The only reason to the headless chickens is the new system.

If we had continued to play the way we played the last months last season then it wouldn't be any headless chickens out there because they would play a system they know how to play.

Now as I said they must learn a new system. Takes time, time we don't have.

[Lecter]

I think he knows more about football than you or me. That doesn't mean he'll end up being proved right but it does mean he should be given the time for us to find out.

Bleating about your fears for the future which are based on potentially spurious assumptions is tedious to read and, given the way these things spread, unhelpful.

But **** that, let's all throw the toys out.

Have we actually played 4-4-2 in every game this season??

I dont think we have

At times (even during games) we've switched formations

Yes 4-4-2 appears to be Kennys preferred starting formations but to state that he strictly adheres to that is ****ing bollocks

Even back in the day we varied and switched formations and the same is happening now

[RichC]

We really need to get things in to perspective here. If we had just 1 clinical striker in our team nobody would be discussing formations and numbers IMO. We are just by far the most wastefull team up front right now, and we need someone to get the many chances on goals we have transfered in to proper goals. Only city have outdone us in creating chances, and yet we have scored few goals. This has nothing to do with us playing 442.

Sorry about format from c/p, but can't be bothered changing it.

Team Goals Shots On Target Shot Accuracy Succ Passes
Arsenal 20 125 59 47% 4395
Aston Villa 13 85 30 35% 2404
Blackburn Rovers 13 86 38 44% 2325
Bolton Wanderers 13 85 46 54% 2762
Chelsea 23 135 65 48% 4600
Everton 10 93 41 44% 2616
Fulham 13 100 47 47% 3358
Liverpool 14 132 53 40% 3680
Manchester City 36 166 79 48% 4692
Manchester United 27 115 61 53% 4032
Newcastle United 15 97 42 43% 2754
Norwich City 14 109 46 42% 2632
Queens Park Rangers 8 103 36 35% 2773
Stoke City 8 73 25 34% 2104
Sunderland 14 101 41 41% 2726
Swansea City 12 94 40 43% 4426
Tottenham Hotspur 18 119 62 52% 3405
West Bromwich Albion 9 90 40 44% 3001
Wigan Athletic 6 96 36 38% 3232
Wolverhampton Wanderers 9 124 50 40% 2979

[Chris]

I don't think he been let down by some players. I think that most of our players have almost never played a 4-4-2 system before. It takes time to learn a new system.

And yet you've already suggested selling some of our summer signings! You make this up as you go along.

[Darkon]

Sorry mate but I disagree, the majority of our chances are made by and taken by Suarez. We are not creating good opportunities throughout the rest of the team and we do give up far too much space in the centre of the pitch.

So what if he makes most of the chances? Van Persie makes most of Arsenals chances for instance, but he is just better at finishing them.

Most teams have 1-2 players that can do that little extra and makes/scores most of the goals, and it's maybe only the two manchester teams that have more players doing so.

I just think it's quite strange to focus on our system and playing style, when we are clearly creating more chances than pretty much any other team. We are just wastefull. Bar the Tottenham game with it's special circumstances our defense have been pretty solid in terms of conceeding few goals.

Didn't see the Swansea game, so can't comment on that - but besides that one we have played some great football for most games, hitting the woodwork 12-13 times or something like that and just been incredibly wastefull in front of goal. I choose to see the positive in things, and it must be depressing not being able to do so considering the amount of progress we have made as a club since January, even since June last year.

I don't know if it's a single game of frustration, or if patience have just gone tits up with many supporters, but I do find it mind buggling that people can call for Kenny's head 3½ month in to his first full season