Kenny isn't what we need

[Lecter]

I don't think he been let down by some players. I think that most of our players have almost never played a 4-4-2 system before. It takes time to learn a new system.

I don't have a clue to why Kenny decided to start using a new system this season. I would understand why if we had played in the Europa league and by that way playing more games.

Now we must use a lot of league games as a way to get the players learning the new system.

You can clearly see that the players is learning the new system. Agger talked about headless chickens for example. The only reason to the headless chickens is the new system.

If we had continued to play the way we played the last months last season then it wouldn't be any headless chickens out there because they would play a system they know how to play.

Now as I said they must learn a new system. Takes time, time we don't have.

Playing devils advocate here

But everytime you replace a manager you change system

When Rafa took over we changed system, ditto with Roy and same with Kenny

Yet you have advocated changing manager earlier in this thread because the system isnt working??

So we bring in a new manager with a new system for the players to learn - WHICH WILL TAKE TIME

It doesnt sound the way forward for me and smacks of short-termism, and that sort of thinking is ALWAYS detrimental to football clubs

[Lecter]

So what if he makes most of the chances? Van Persie makes most of Arsenals chances for instance, but he is just better at finishing them.

Most teams have 1-2 players that can do that little extra and makes/scores most of the goals, and it's maybe only the two manchester teams that have more players doing so.

I just think it's quite strange to focus on our system and playing style, when we are clearly creating more chances than pretty much any other team. We are just wastefull. Bar the Tottenham game with it's special circumstances our defense have been pretty solid in terms of conceeding few goals.

Didn't see the Swansea game, so can't comment on that - but besides that one we have played some great football for most games, hitting the woodwork 12-13 times or something like that and just been incredibly wastefull in front of goal. I choose to see the positive in things, and it must be depressing not being able to do so considering the amount of progress we have made as a club since January, even since June last year.

I don't know if it's a single game of frustration, or if patience have just gone tits up with many supporters, but I do find it mind buggling that people can call for Kenny's head 3½ month in to his first full season

Good post and bang on the button imo

I'd like to see the stats as to which players have hit the bar

Suarez might well have done this the most but I would be surprise if he has contributed even half of the woodwork hits. Carroll has hit the woodwork a good 4 or 5 times off the top of my head

All round the team is missing chances and whilst that is a concern its less a concern than creating no chances whatsoever

[Darkon]

Downing have had 3 on the bar I think, he have been quite close to scoring a number of times.

[Arn]

Playing devils advocate here

But everytime you replace a manager you change system

When Rafa took over we changed system, ditto with Roy and same with Kenny

Yet you have advocated changing manager earlier in this thread because the system isnt working??

So we bring in a new manager with a new system for the players to learn - WHICH WILL TAKE TIME

It doesnt sound the way forward for me and smacks of short-termism, and that sort of thinking is ALWAYS detrimental to football clubs

When Kenny got the job he changed system to a system the players know inside out, 4-2-3-1. He almost never played 4-4-2 last season.

Roy tried some weird 4-4-2 and it didn't exactly worked out.

Now he changed it back to 4-4-2 again. I wonder why?

The players know how to play 4-2-3-1. They don't need any time learning that system. They showed that last season. They clearly don't yet know how to play 4-4-2.

[Shaggy]

Downing have had 3 on the bar I think, he have been quite close to scoring a number of times.

[Neil Young]

Neil, agreed oppo fans are just as blinkered. That's why we're all on a forum of some sort.

I think you missed these parts of my post:

"Beat Chavs and City which I think we are absolutely capable of doing."

"However, this international break is much kinder and could be the turning point for Kenny. YNWA."

I think you're just too focused on the negative Neil. You need to chill out.

I'm glad you mentioned the international break. We always get posts saying how international breaks come at the wrong times for us - I hope the timing of this one will put an end to such jackanapery.

I think kenny has been let down by some players,they need to step the duck up and start plaYing for our kenny.

I agree. Marsh is to blame.

[Craig_H]

What does it matter if I watched or not. Every sportsman wants to win, Ive not come across who didn't. There is such a thing as pride in defeat.

Your saying we didn't want Europa League. What, was that from the start of the season. **** or bust? Or did we decide when it was 2 or 3 games to go we didn't fancy it and would rather be out of Europe all together. I understood your post fully, there isn't really any ways to interpret it is there?

It matters if you saw the game or not, because you'd have seen the difference between the way our team is up for it against Man Utd, and how they were that day.

Yet again you're not reading my post properly. Of course every team wants to win. Answer me this, do you think we put in the same kind of heart, passion and effort into our Europa League games last season, as we do at home to Man Utd? Do we put in the same kind of heart and desire into a home game against Wigan as we do against Everton?

The part of my post you didnt seem to acknowledge, was the point i made about it being somewhat subconscious. Nobody sits there thinking 'we dont want to win' or 'we dont care' but deep down, whether they realise it or not, sometimes players dont always have maximum desire and sometimes dont put their heart and soul into a game. Spurs at home last season was one such occasion.

[Lecter]

When Kenny got the job he changed system to a system the players know inside out, 4-2-3-1. He almost never played 4-4-2 last season.

Roy tried some weird 4-4-2 and it didn't exactly worked out.

Now he changed it back to 4-4-2 again. I wonder why?

The players know how to play 4-2-3-1. They don't need any time learning that system. They showed that last season. They clearly don't yet know how to play 4-4-2.

We played 4-4-2 a lot last season

You say the player know how to play 4-2-3-1 - well which ones??

Take Saturdays starting side for instance

Only Reina (not an outfield player) Lucas, Agger, Skrtel & Johnson are remnants of Rafa's 4-2-3-1 system (or even Roy's side)

That leaves Suarez, Downing, Adam, Enrique, Carroll & Henderson all of whom NEVER played under Rafa. Did all the clubs they played for play 4-2-3-1?? I dont think so

I understand what you are getting at, in your opinion the players we have are more suited to 4-2-3-1 but that is VERY different to suggesting that they dont know how to play 4-2-3-1

I'm not even sure I agree with the 4-2-3-1 comment now, we've had a high turnover of players since Rafa (and Roy) left and we are probably as far away from being able to put out a 4-2-3-1 side as we are of playing 4-4-2 comfortably

[Darkon]

[Fredo]

I agree with Lecter here. It's obvious that there are teething problems and it's mainly due to lack of consistency but also due to us not finishing off our chances.

We have been creating chances, which is a good sign. Another good sign is the way we switch formations during games. It shows that we are flexible and surely this is positive. We were never going to gel instantly and we're not doing too badly after all.

I personally have doubts over Carroll for example but credit to him, he is improving his game.

Calls for Kenny's head are over the top. It smacks of short termism.

[Lecter]

We really need to get things in to perspective here. If we had just 1 clinical striker in our team nobody would be discussing formations and numbers IMO. We are just by far the most wastefull team up front right now, and we need someone to get the many chances on goals we have transfered in to proper goals. Only city have outdone us in creating chances, and yet we have scored few goals. This has nothing to do with us playing 442.

Sorry about format from c/p, but can't be bothered changing it.

Team Goals Shots On Target Shot Accuracy Succ Passes
Arsenal 20 125 59 47% 4395
Aston Villa 13 85 30 35% 2404
Blackburn Rovers 13 86 38 44% 2325
Bolton Wanderers 13 85 46 54% 2762
Chelsea 23 135 65 48% 4600
Everton 10 93 41 44% 2616
Fulham 13 100 47 47% 3358
Liverpool 14 132 53 40% 3680
Manchester City 36 166 79 48% 4692
Manchester United 27 115 61 53% 4032
Newcastle United 15 97 42 43% 2754
Norwich City 14 109 46 42% 2632
Queens Park Rangers 8 103 36 35% 2773
Stoke City 8 73 25 34% 2104
Sunderland 14 101 41 41% 2726
Swansea City 12 94 40 43% 4426
Tottenham Hotspur 18 119 62 52% 3405
West Bromwich Albion 9 90 40 44% 3001
Wigan Athletic 6 96 36 38% 3232
Wolverhampton Wanderers 9 124 50 40% 2979

This shows how clinical you have to be if you have ambitions to be in the top 4

Look at the teams above us, they are miles ahead of us in terms of conversion rates yet we are right up there in terms of the number of shots we are having

I'd like to see how many chances we have create this season

I reckon we'd be pretty high up the table in terms of that stat

Converting those chances is where we are failing and we are clearly failing miserably in that department

[cream]

This shows how clinical you have to be if you have ambitions to be in the top 4

Look at the teams above us, they are miles ahead of us in terms of conversion rates yet we are right up there in terms of the number of shots we are having

I'd like to see how many chances we have create this season

I reckon we'd be pretty high up the table in terms of that stat

Converting those chances is where we are failing and we are clearly failing miserably in that department

So the answer is a striker who can score...

[Vermilion]

Bloody incredible the amount of Answers Arn gets to his posts.

[Craig_H]

Does anyone think, that with his age and perhaps not being as nippy and quick as before, Bellamy could be used as an out and out striker? He can finish IMO and it'd be hard to imagine him missing as many chances as others seem to miss.

[Shaggy]

Does anyone think, that with his age and perhaps not being as nippy and quick as before, Bellamy could be used as an out and out striker? He can finish IMO and it'd be hard to imagine him missing as many chances as others seem to miss.

Yep, he's a striker after all yet it seems to be accepted by everyone that he's an option on the wing and not really anywhere else. If we're playing two up top I'd want to see him & Suarez given a chance together. They'd be nightmarish to play against.