Kenny isn't what we need

[Icon]

Unbeaten in 8, i'll have you know

Rangers..?

[Arn]

You talk about Suarez like he's some sort of poacher type goalscorer Arn. He's nothing like that - if anything he's very much in the mould of your mate Aguero. The problem Suarez has at present is that he is incapable of putting the ball in the net from anywhere within the box. His finishing must improve.

The problem is that he must do almost all the work himself to even get the chance to score.

If he had more creative players playing with him then he would also score more goals. If he didn't need to do other players job winning and chasing the ball then he would score more goals.

Suarez is as you point out much more than a poacher, just like Messi and Aguero but both of them have more creative players serving them and other players doing their part of the job in defence.

He do his part of the defensive job and so do a player like Dzeko. Balotelli don't do that for example. That is why Aguero isn't scoring as many goals when he play as he do when he play together with Dzeko because then he will have to do a part of the defensive job Balotelli should do.

That is also a big reason to why a partnership of Suarez and Tevez would IMO be a big success. Tevez would do his part of the defensive job and he would be the creative player Suarez need alongside him.

[Icon]

The problem is that he must do almost all the work himself to even get the chance to score.

If he had more creative players playing with him then he would also score more goals. If he didn't need to do other players job winning and chasing the ball then he would score more goals.

Suarez is as you point out much more than a poacher, just like Messi and Aguero but both of them have more creative players serving them and other players doing their part of the job in defence.

He do his part of the defensive job and so do a player like Dzeko. Balotelli don't do that for example. That is why Aguero isn't scoring as many goals when he play as he do when he play together with Dzeko because then he will have to do a part of the defensive job Balotelli should do.

That is also a big reason to why a partnership of Suarez and Tevez would IMO be a big success. Tevez would do his part of the defensive job and he would be the creative player Suarez need alongside him.

With Kenny in charge, right..?

[Craig_H]

In fact, it was glaringly obvious as early as last season's 3-1 win against the mancs. The one where he nipped the ball past Evra (or Brown, cant remember which) on the right and ran round the left of him to get onto the ball - and then, once in a great position to shoot, he thrashed at his shot with the outside of the right foot and screwed it into the Kop

[Arn]

With Kenny in charge, right..?

If he stop playing 4-4-2 with Lucas and Adam in the middle. That has been the main point all the time. Play Maxi instead of Downing.

Stop playing Adam in a 4-4-2. It is clearly not working. Downing have done nothing to deserve a place in the starting XI.

I have said myself in this thread that Kenny can be a success if he stop playing 4-4-2. He will never be a success if he don't because we don't have the players to do it.

We have the players to play 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 for example.

[Reece]

Agreed but was there any need for:

Haha

[Arn]

In fact, it was glaringly obvious as early as last season's 3-1 win against the mancs. The one where he nipped the ball past Evra (or Brown, cant remember which) on the right and ran round the left of him to get onto the ball - and then, once in a great position to shoot, he thrashed at his shot with the outside of the right foot and screwed it into the Kop

Would he have done that if other players had done the part in bold?

If other more creative players did that job then he could concentrate much more on his finishing.

He can be an excellent poacher if his team mates allow him to be it.

Why is Hernandez scoring a lot of goals at Man U? He can concentrate on his finishing. Other players do the defensive job and more creative players do the hard work creating the chance.

Now Suarez must he himself first win the ball back, then he must get past two or three players and then he get the chance to score.

If he only needed to do the final part then he would score more goals. Just like Hernandez for example, or Van Persie, or Dzeko, or Balotelli. The top scorers in the league.

[Craig_H]

Turning Suarez into a poacher would be a monumental waste of his ability.

[The_weatherman]

Kenny was brought in to steady the ship that Hodgson could not - and he did so, bringing a genuine lift to the club in a very short space of time.
He is (I believe) at this moment in time, the only man for the job, and probably the only manager that can still attract big names whilst we do not have CL football.
But we've lost and drawn a few now so he has to go..

I'm not so sure of that, but we are showing signs of improvement from last season, I think it's pretty unfair to judge him from the "new manager syndrome" when everyone was buzzing and just happy to be rid of Hodgson. IMO it's OK to question his tactics and subs but I think (besides Arn) not many are writing him off just yet.

[The_weatherman]

Turning Suarez into a poacher would be a monumental waste of his ability.

Let's coach his creativity out of him and ask him to stay in the six yard box

[Dalglish]

The problem is that he must do almost all the work himself to even get the chance to score.

If he had more creative players playing with him then he would also score more goals. If he didn't need to do other players job winning and chasing the ball then he would score more goals.

Suarez is as you point out much more than a poacher, just like Messi and Aguero but both of them have more creative players serving them and other players doing their part of the job in defence.

He do his part of the defensive job and so do a player like Dzeko. Balotelli don't do that for example. That is why Aguero isn't scoring as many goals when he play as he do when he play together with Dzeko because then he will have to do a part of the defensive job Balotelli should do.

That is also a big reason to why a partnership of Suarez and Tevez would IMO be a big success. Tevez would do his part of the defensive job and he would be the creative player Suarez need alongside him.

He doesnt HAVE to do that work though. He drops deep a lot of goes on mad runs but very rarely passes the bloody ball. If he stayed in position a bit more then he'd get more goals. Sounds like an oversimplification but there you go. He should be concentrating on scoring not dropping deep all the time.

And as for this partnership of Tevez and Suarez thing, yes I'm sure it would work but it's not really going to happen is it? We're not going to get too far in an analysis of our current issues if we start looking at what hypothetical formations would do are we?

Our current squad is good, the trouble at the moment is Kenny's fairly rigid formation and substitution issues coupled with the inability of any our players to hit a cow's arse with a banjo. The number of chances we are creating is there for all to see (and I got that without resorting to OptaMarkingFactsSTATS.com Lec ) but for some reason we're not putting them away.

[Arn]

Turning Suarez into a poacher would be a monumental waste of his ability.

I agree but he would score more goals because he would be less tired when he get the scoring chance.

Football is a team game. Other players need to step it up and help him out.

If we played 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 then other players would help him out much more chasing and winning the ball back. More players would create the scoring chance.

[cream]

If he stop playing 4-4-2 with Lucas and Adam in the middle. That has been the main point all the time. Play Maxi instead of Downing.

Stop playing Adam in a 4-4-2. It is clearly not working. Downing have done nothing to deserve a place in the starting XI.

I have said myself in this thread that Kenny can be a success if he stop playing 4-4-2. He will never be a success if he don't because we don't have the players to do it.

We have the players to play 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 for example.

So what you are saying, like everybody else, is that we need to change formation, why didn't you start a formation thread instead?

[Craig_H]

I agree but he would score more goals because he would be less tired when he get the scoring chance.

Football is a team game. Other players need to step it up and help him out.

If we played 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 then other players would help him out much more chasing and winning the ball back. More players would create the scoring chance.

As you often do, you're vastly over simplifying things. Firstly, Suarez's less than clinical finishing isnt just down to 'tiredness', he simply needs to work on his finishing.

Secondly, if you're going to stick him in the box as a poacher, he'd be hugely reliant on someone doing the creative bit, to put the chance in front of him. At the moment, the one doing most of that stuff is Suarez himself. Why take away our most potent creative force and lump him in the six yard box?

Keep Suarez as he is and just get him doing some extra hours on his finishing/composure in front of goal.

And you've banged on about the formation about 84,000 times now, we get it, stop ramming the same point down our throats over and over and over again, it's incredibly tedious.

[Craig_H]

Deleted