Kenny isn't what we need

[Craig_H]

I can't be bothered reading 22 pages of this

Take out Arn's posts, which are practically identical, and you have about 4 pages left.

[RichC]

this I think tells us why we've not got more points - our finishing is woeful, simple as that. Not the formation, the lucas/adam midfield it's simply we do not convert enough of our chances. We sort that out and we'll be flying

14 goals from 149 shots with 58 of those on target, that is not good enough.

Team Goals Shots target %acc pass completion
Man City 39 181 84 46% 4992
Liverpool 14 149 58 39% 4105
Chelsea 24 144 70 49% 5078
Arsenal 23 135 64 47% 4972
Wolves 12 135 60 44% 3247
Man Utd 28 125 67 54% 4439
Spurs 21 125 67 54% 3756
Fulham 14 120 60 50% 3771
Norwich 16 117 53 45% 2907
QPR 10 116 41 35% 3118
Wigan 7 110 43 39% 3546
S'Land 14 108 42 39% 3002
Geordies 17 106 45 42% 2983
Everton 11 105 45 43% 2939
Swansea 12 103 43 42% 4830
Bolton 18 98 55 56% 3060
Villa 16 97 35 36% 2640
Blackburn 13 96 43 45% 2561
WBA 9 96 42 44% 3238
Stoke 8 81 28 35% 2271

[Mattshark]

this I think tells us why we've not got more points - our finishing is woeful, simple as that. Not the formation, the lucas/adam midfield it's simply we do not convert enough of our chances. We sort that out and we'll be flying

14 goals from 149 shots with 58 of those on target, that is not good enough.

Team Goals Shots target %acc pass completion
Man City 39 181 84 46% 4992
Liverpool 14 149 58 39% 4105
Chelsea 24 144 70 49% 5078
Arsenal 23 135 64 47% 4972
Wolves 12 135 60 44% 3247
Man Utd 28 125 67 54% 4439
Spurs 21 125 67 54% 3756
Fulham 14 120 60 50% 3771
Norwich 16 117 53 45% 2907
QPR 10 116 41 35% 3118
Wigan 7 110 43 39% 3546
S'Land 14 108 42 39% 3002
Geordies 17 106 45 42% 2983
Everton 11 105 45 43% 2939
Swansea 12 103 43 42% 4830
Bolton 18 98 55 56% 3060
Villa 16 97 35 36% 2640
Blackburn 13 96 43 45% 2561
WBA 9 96 42 44% 3238
Stoke 8 81 28 35% 2271

I don't know, I think the set up with Adam and Lucas means we sacrifice far too much of the middle of the pitch. I still think our missed chances stat is highly misleading too, you must remember that those numbers alone are not a great indicator without know the quality of chance created.

[RichC]

how ? we've not converted enough of our chances, how on earth are these highly misleading? 14 goals from 149 shots that's a terrible conversion rate, and however you try to spin it with misleading stats etc... it's not good enough.

People on here try and focus on different parts of how we set up and analyse what we should be doing better, the simple fact of football is you win games by scoring goals we are not doing enough of that, we are creating enough chances to do so.

I am not a big fan of the 4-4-2 myself but too many people are using this as the reason as to why we've not picked up more points - the stats tells something different.

[Mattshark]

how ? we've not converted enough of our chances, how on earth are these highly misleading? 14 goals from 149 shots that's a terrible conversion rate, and however you try to spin it with misleading stats etc... it's not good enough.

People on here try and focus on different parts of how we set up and analyse what we should be doing better, the simple fact of football is you win games by scoring goals we are not doing enough of that, we are creating enough chances to do so.

I am not a big fan of the 4-4-2 myself but too many people are using this as the reason as to why we've not picked up more points - the stats tells something different.

Really? Because I'm pretty sure that doesn't indicate quality of chance nor do we have an indication of how the chance came about so you can't say that from just those numbers alone.

Do you know what percentage of those shots hit a defender? Do you how many where low percentage shots? Do you know what percentage where created and taken by Suarez (because I would believe it would be a reasonable amount)? You have no context to the figures and therefore the have a limited amount of indication.

[~LFCHistory~]

this I think tells us why we've not got more points - our finishing is woeful, simple as that. Not the formation, the lucas/adam midfield it's simply we do not convert enough of our chances. We sort that out and we'll be flying

14 goals from 149 shots with 58 of those on target, that is not good enough.

Team Goals Shots target %acc pass completion
Man City 39 181 84 46% 4992
Liverpool 14 149 58 39% 4105
Chelsea 24 144 70 49% 5078
Arsenal 23 135 64 47% 4972
Wolves 12 135 60 44% 3247
Man Utd 28 125 67 54% 4439
Spurs 21 125 67 54% 3756
Fulham 14 120 60 50% 3771
Norwich 16 117 53 45% 2907
QPR 10 116 41 35% 3118
Wigan 7 110 43 39% 3546
S'Land 14 108 42 39% 3002
Geordies 17 106 45 42% 2983
Everton 11 105 45 43% 2939
Swansea 12 103 43 42% 4830
Bolton 18 98 55 56% 3060
Villa 16 97 35 36% 2640
Blackburn 13 96 43 45% 2561
WBA 9 96 42 44% 3238
Stoke 8 81 28 35% 2271

And what do you think is the cause of that ? Second half of last season we were scoring for fun but this season we have scored less goals than Norwich,Bolton and Fulham FFS. Is it bad luck ? The team needs time to gel ? Or is it because our attacking unit from last season - Suarez, Maxi, Kuyt and Meireles has been dismantled and replaced with average, mid table players in Downing, Adam, Carroll and Henderson.

[RichC]

Really? Because I'm pretty sure that doesn't indicate quality of chance nor do we have an indication of how the chance came about so you can't say that from just those numbers alone.

Do you know what percentage of those shots hit a defender? Do you how many where low percentage shots? Do you know what percentage where created and taken by Suarez (because I would believe it would be a reasonable amount)? You have no context to the figures and therefore the have a limited amount of indication.

I should imagine if you look at the number of shots that are on target 58 then there will have had to have been an intervention either from a defender or goalkeeper to have not been converted to a goal/

43 shots were from Suarez which is a decent % of the chances have fallen to him.

And what context would you like? Stats are all about context, the context you use in this case are the other 19 PL teams being ranked in exactly the same way, quite simple really. I'll give you an example a fund in say the IMA UK Smaller companies is ranked against it's peers using the same methodolgy to rank where it sits within the sector, it's what's called a peer group composite, this make sense so far? So if you look at risk being chances and performance being converted chances you'd see that we are actually high on risk and low on performance in comparision to the peer group.

[Lecter]

And what do you think is the cause of that ? Second half of last season we were scoring for fun but this season we have scored less goals than Norwich,Bolton and Fulham FFS. Is it bad luck ? The team needs time to gel ? Or is it because our attacking unit from last season - Suarez, Maxi, Kuyt and Meireles has been dismantled and replaced with average, mid table players in Downing, Adam, Carroll and Henderson.

Just to be pedantic have we replaced Suarez???

I dont think we have, he has been playing the VAST majority of games and like many of his counterparts is missing chances so you cant say hes been taken out of the side and replaced with Carroll thats nonsense

For me Maxi & Meireles hit once in a career hot spots for us last season

I seriously doubt they could EVER repeat that kind of goalscoring form again

Meireles scored 15 goals in 138 games for Porto, got 5 in 35 for LFC and so far has 1 in 8 for Chelsea

[Bender]

Just to be pedantic have we replaced Suarez???

I dont think we have, he has been playing the VAST majority of games and like many of his counterparts is missing chances

For me Maxi & Meireles hit once in a career hot spots for us last season

I seriously doubt they could EVER repeat that kind of goalscoring form again

what we sold him? when did this happen

[Mattshark]

I should imagine if you look at the number of shots that are on target 58 then there will have had to have been an intervention either from a defender or goalkeeper to have not been converted to a goal/

43 shots were from Suarez which is a decent % of the chances have fallen to him.

And what context would you like? Stats are all about context, the context you use in this case are the other 19 PL teams being ranked in exactly the same way, quite simple really. I'll give you an example a fund in say the IMA UK Smaller companies is ranked against it's peers using the same methodolgy to rank where it sits within the sector, it's what's called a peer group composite, this make sense so far? So if you look at risk being chances and performance being converted chances you'd see that we are actually high on risk and low on performance in comparision to the peer group.

Yeah and it is also still just raw data, it has very limited value, hypothetically speaking we could have had a load of shots from the half way line and it would have still shown up in a similar fashion. And don't patronise me.

[Mattshark]

Just to be pedantic have we replaced Suarez???

I dont think we have, he has been playing the VAST majority of games and like many of his counterparts is missing chances

For me Maxi & Meireles hit once in a career hot spots for us last season

I seriously doubt they could EVER repeat that kind of goalscoring form again

Maxi is a career 1 in 4 goal scorer though, that is a good ratio, he is a decent finisher and he will get into the box.

[RichC]

Yeah and it is also still just raw data, it has very limited value, hypothetically speaking we could have had a load of shots from the half way line and it would have still shown up in a similar fashion. And don't patronise me.

raw data is what you always start with you then put it into context by using a ranking system.

wasn't meant to be patronising it appeared you weren't sure how to create meaningful anaysis with data.

[Lecter]

Maxi is a career 1 in 4 goal scorer though, that is a good ratio, he is a decent finisher and he will get into the box.

I'm not convinced hes that good a finisher, certainly not at LFC. The double hattricks have masked over a lot of games when he hasnt hit the back of the net

I'm not convinced he could hit those "white-hot" goalscoring form again

[Mattshark]

raw data is what you always start with you then put it into context by using a ranking system.

wasn't meant to be patronising it appeared you weren't sure how to create meaningful anaysis with data.

I've done plenty of statistical analysis thank you.

A ranking system for this type of data is of limited value as there are far too many variables to account for. It needs to assessed with other data to give it value.

[Mattshark]

I'm not convinced hes that good a finisher, certainly not at LFC. The double hattricks have masked over a lot of games when he hasnt hit the back of the net

I'm not convinced he could hit those "white-hot" heights again

I'm not sure he'd score 2 hat-tricks again, I think he could get 10 goals though.