Kenny isn't what we need

[Daniel 7]

You just upset Zlatan Nicey, I hope you're happy.



Cheer up cheeky face!!

[little dave hedgehog]

is he gay?

[dom9]

I can't believe this thread is still going. I've not read it, but if it is still on topic, that is an embarassment.

[BringbackBiscan]

is he gay?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrzVR1D0VXw"]"You come to my house and you are going to see if I am gay" : Answers Ibrahimovic - YouTube[/ame]

[little dave hedgehog]

it's the same "points" over and over though dom. with the usual digressions and accusations.

[Daniel 7]

"You come to my house and you are going to see if I am gay" : Answers Ibrahimovic - YouTube

something about a lady protesting too much

[dom9]

it's the same "points" over and over though dom. with the usual digressions and accusations.

Ah of course.

I'll quietly leave now.

[Mattshark]

I'm sorry but you're having a laugh and seeing what you want to suit your opinion or agenda.
Both Kuyt and Henderson should have scored, end of argument. Both 6-8 yards out with just the keeper to beat, exactly the same as Carroll last week against Swansea.
Those deliveries from Downing are world class, not arguing that the rest of his overall play needs to improve but he puts quality delivery into the box that we haven't had since John Barnes.

**** off, its is not an agenda, yes Henderson could have done better, but what the hell was Kuyt supposed to do? Grow?

[Lecter]

Missing out on around £40m-£50m could play a part. That is the kind of money you miss out on if you miss out on a CL place. That means that one unsuccessful season cost the club much more than it did 20 years ago.

We have missed out at least £80m the last two seasons because we didn't play in the CL.

That means that if you are a manager at a club like Liverpool FC then you must more or less be a success from season one. We can't afford to miss out on £40m+ every season and see our rivals get that money instead.

Missing out on £40 million per annum when you are in debt and have MASSIVE loan repayments to make is very different to missing out on £40 million when you arent burdened by such collossal interest payments

Yes ideally you would like that money but it isnt an absolute necessity in the short term

A good businessman/business model would have included the possibility of NOT being in the CL for a couple of years (or maybe more)

[Lecter]

**** off, its is not an agenda, yes Henderson could have done better, but what the hell was Kuyt supposed to do? Grow?

Kuyts chance was probably difficult as you have said BUT the forwards as a whole have missed chances I would expect them to take

Apart from the odd isolated incident (like Kuyt) there have been other glaring misses that should have been taken

That said I'd like to see more from Downing he started ok but recently (and despite those stats posted earlier in this thread) his performances havent been up to scratch

[Lecter]

Can you really make those simple equations though. I think even without CL football our revenue has been better than Spurs and we have had at least as much to spend as Arsenal have. Our revenue streams also seem to keep growing. Whilst CL football brings noticeable extra revenue I'm not sure that it always brings quite the vast disparity in spending power that is sometimes suggested.

Obviously the positives we have won't last forever and we do need to progress but I think there is a somewhat exaggerated sense of the desperateness of everything in most discussions of things at present.

[Neil Young]

Sorry but the example of Ferguson isn't relevant. Football and the world in general is so much more impatient and knee jerk than what it was in the 80's. Managers simply are not given the time and patience they once were, whether that is the right way to do things is irrelevant because that's just how things are now.

When I said that were we are at the end of December will give us a good indication of whether or not this team and manager are capable of getting 4th I wasn't talking about league position. I was talking about quality of football, mentality of the players and whether or not the manager can recognise his own mistakes, find a solution and adapt. 3 very difficult fixtures coming up, Chelsea, Man City and Chelsea again, those 3 games will tell us a lot about our CL aspirations.

I wondered if that's what you were talking about but it's just as premature as using points to make the call. And you keep banging on about Dalglish recognising his mistakes (as though he hasn't shown flexibility, which he has) and picking players because of they are or how much he paid for them (which is more than an unproven assumption, it's simply wrong, which is why Carroll isn't in the team much these days).

I mentioned Ferguson because it's clear you (and others) are repeating the received wisdom of short-termist, alarmist pseudoanalysis. I said Dalglish will keep his job IMO if FSG see signs of continued progress. Fourth might well show that but it doesn't guarantee it. And the opposite is also true - not getting fourth would make replacing Dalglish more likely but it doesn't guarantee it.

Note also I mentioned Ferguson winning the title, not six years to get fourth. Now I think it's unlikely the manager would get a full six years but if we came close, got far in the CL, etc. then it's not impossible. Yet you seem to think it is. Er, how long was Rafa boss for before he got sacked? Let's see, he came in 2004 and left in 2010...

So we don't have to go back to Ferguson to see a manager getting six years in charge without a title but we do have to go back that far to see one of the best managers of all time (and very possibly the best if we're honest about it) taking six years to win a title. So to take less than a year to judge the ability of a manager who won the f*cking Double in his first season as manager and has won the league elsewhere since is not only indefensible, it's moronic.

[Arn]

I wondered if that's what you were talking about but it's just as premature as using points to make the call. And you keep banging on about Dalglish recognising his mistakes (as though he hasn't shown flexibility, which he has) and picking players because of they are or how much he paid for them (which is more than an unproven assumption, it's simply wrong, which is why Carroll isn't in the team much these days).

I mentioned Ferguson because it's clear you (and others) are repeating the received wisdom of short-termist, alarmist pseudoanalysis. I said Dalglish will keep his job IMO if FSG see signs of continued progress. Fourth might well show that but it doesn't guarantee it. And the opposite is also true - not getting fourth would make replacing Dalglish more likely but it doesn't guarantee it.

Note also I mentioned Ferguson winning the title, not six years to get fourth. Now I think it's unlikely the manager would get a full six years but if we came close, got far in the CL, etc. then it's not impossible. Yet you seem to think it is. Er, how long was Rafa boss for before he got sacked? Let's see, he came in 2004 and left in 2010...

So we don't have to go back to Ferguson to see a manager getting six years in charge without a title but we do have to go back that far to see one of the best managers of all time (and very possibly the best if we're honest about it) taking six years to win a title. So to take less than a year to judge the ability of a manager who won the f*cking Double in his first season as manager and has won the league elsewhere since is not only indefensible, it's moronic.

Do you think Ferguson would have been given six years if it meant that every year he missed out on winning the title meant that we would have got a lot of money and by that way widened the gap even more?

You will have to remember that when that happened then the English clubs was banned from Europe and before the CL.

That is IMO a key point.

Managers isn't given enough time because of all the money involved. Managers that do fantastic results by promoting a club to the PL could be sacked after half a season if they are close to the bottom of the league.

Why? Money.

[Assassin]

What you and others fail to remember, or do not know. It was said many years ago Fergurson was one game away from the sack and he turned it around

[Craig_H]

Mark fecking Robins.