Kenny isn't what we need

[Craig_H]

If it had been Rafa, the Arsenal result would've been 'amazing', because it's Kenny, they are now 'very weak'. Get a fecking grip.

Under Rafa we dropped home points against Fulham, Stoke, West Ham, Hull City....where was your criticism then? Your agenda is so transparent.

And whatever you make of the individual games, "If another manager had started this season in the same way" then no, not many people would be questioning him. It's not about it being Kenny, it's about being 3 points off 4th place and whoppers like you throwing in the towel and calling for his head.

Support the ****ing team and stop calling for the manager's head 11 games into the ****ing season.

[Daniel 7]

To be fair Arn, you made your point and back up arguments 5 or 6 posts in. Its just recycling now.

I'm sure you'll be happy this time next year when things settle and the squad is embellished with top level players.

To recycle a point I made in response to your argument, a new manager, system and players needs time. Even Rafa's first season was patchy and a real grind to get through (in the league).

[Arn]

Football has not changed alot over the years, tell me what fundamental part of the game has changed? you still have to get the ball in the back of the net, you still have to tackle, you still have 2 posts at either end? This is exactly what Dalglish said when he took over and was asked the same stupid question inferring that he may be 'out of date', he replied saying it hasn't and i agree completely with him. People are fooled into believing it has, in the same way that many fans are fooled into thinking they know exactly what formation will do the trick, you're totally right about 4-4-2, if kenny had played 4-2-3-1 or something else we would be 3 points clear at the top.....even if you want to argue the formation is the problem, its largely irrelevant....because its not as though in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 the players suddenly go "hang on, we're in this formation now? we can convert more of our chances more"

It is the players who have not converted enough of their chances or managed to score despite healthy spells of dominating games, granted they have had some bad luck which hasn't helped. (although i'd like to stress im not having a go at them either)

what has changed since Kenny last won the league as manager, is an even more powerful brand in the premierleague and thus with more money, a far more competitive league. The growth in technology and other forms of media has lead to more intense pressure put on managers, some fans have become consumers who think they have a right to see their team always win because they paid for it.

Achievements in football 25 years ago are not irrelevant at all. to suggest so is laughable. You don't lose game intelligence which Dalglish has to have in bundles because he has won the league as a player and a manager. It is for this reason that i still think he is the best person to manage liverpool, even if you take away his hero status, he is somebody who has done it all with regards to the game, why wouldn't you want that person to manage you?

of course those people who think we should sign a manager who has never won the league are right

The main thing that changed is that you must now study your opponent many hours looking at clips, videos etc. You must find weaknesses that way. If you have weaknesses yourself then you can be very sure that it will be used against you because the manager that you will be up against will have done his homework and looked at clips etc. He will know about any weakness you may have.

If you play with Lucas and Adam in a 4-4-2 then the weakness they have, mobility, will be used against you. That is one thing Kenny have not corrected. That weakness is used against us in game after game.

Is he using any weakness our opponent may have? No, he isn't. That points to that he hasn't done his homework.

The way he allowed Swansea to pass the ball around was a joke. He did nothing to stop them doing it. Instead he played a starting XI that played them straight into their hands. A midfield that couldn't press them good enough, a striker that have a calf problem and a striker that isn't mobile enough to be able to press them good enough.

Another thing that changed is that the players is trained in a totally different way now. Much more individual training than 20 years ago.

The pitches are also much better. That means that the game is even quicker.

So it is bull**** that nothing changed.

[Craig_H]

Arn, go stand on the Kop and call for Kenny's head. I'd like to see what happens.

[_92]

[From .tv forums]

"Dalglish", the cried, Dalglish they were delivered

We all remember the day, the 9th of January this very year, Kenny Dalglish walked down the Old Trafford touchline and took his place on the Liverpool bench for the first time in twenty years. Raising his hands towards the Liverpool supporters gathered in the ground in a way which has become a symbolic image now etched in Liverpool folklore. A collective sigh of relief was breathed by those very supporters, for the man they sang for in the final games in the Hodgson era was back where they wanted him, the hell of the previous reign was over, hope was restored.

What followed was an unfortunate 1-0 defeat to bitter rivals Man Utd, but it didn't matter, much more was won that day than lost. The game paled in significance, such is the aura of Kenny, very few could overshadow this game with their presence, him being one of those few. As Liverpool set onwards, the departure of Fernando Torres was dealt with in a ruthless manner befitting a club like Liverpool, he was soon replaced and then some.

A strong finish to the season saw Liverpool roll back the years with some great results, making light of Chelsea, Utd and City on the way to salvaging a more than respectable 6th place finish, given what had gone on in the first half of the season. A summer of transition beckoned, a summer where Liverpool would really start the rebuilding. If the last few months had been Liverpool healing, the summer was to be Liverpool planning for the future.

The strong end to last season had sent expectation levels through the roof, Kenny no doubt being aware of that too, not that it would alter his own expectation levels or strategy. He's a man who has exceptional man management skills, a man who knows the game inside out, and more importantly than that, he's a man that is fully confident in his own philosophy and methods that he won't be swayed by outside influence.

In came the signings of Charlie Adam, Jordan Henderson, Stewart Downing, Jose Enrique and Craig Bellamy, with Doni and Coates coming in too. Out went the deadwood that was taking up space at the training ground, commaning ridiculous wages and to be blunt, not good enough to wear the shirt of such a team. Raul Meireles being the exception, and indeed a departure questioned by many supporters. Eyebrows were raised by the outlay on the likes of Downing and Henderson, such is the scrutiny football clubs are under now from their fans, it's a natural thing.

What isn't natural though, with respect to this club, is questioning those players after 11 games. There is an element to fans which says that more money spent has to mean quicker results, that isn't true though, or at least shouldn't be. We've seen many supporters question Dalgish over these signings after some poor draws at homes. The thing being most concerning is the mumblings of boo's that briefly, but significantly, broke out following the game with Swansea last week. 12 months ago, those same supporters were calling for Kenny to come in and save them. They were desperate for it, and by doing so, one would assume they were willing to subscribe to his plans for the future, and allow him the chance to implement those plans.

Almost unquestionably, Dalglish has found out exactly how much his strong finish to last season had raised the expectation amongst the support. What is crucial though, for all supporters to remember, is that Kenny will also remain steadfast with how he goes about re-structuring his side. He won't bow to pressure imposed by childish time constraints imposed by impatient supporters. Liverpool are going the right way, at no point was any promise made that it would be instant. Kenny himself will tell you that there will be blips along the way, but once his team will never lack heart or fight for the cause. You don't bridge 20 years in the domestic wilderness over night. It takes time and mistakes will be made along the way, crucially though, under Kenny those mistakes will be eradicated.

The club right now is at a crossroads. As a unit, it is in sync. Owners down to playing staff down to cleaning staff, all pulling together for the same cause. Perhaps those supporters who sang almost in prayer for Dalglish will settle in and enjoy the ride. It's certainly not a large amount of dis-content. It's just crucial for Liverpool to remain as one and believe in their club again.

One things is for certain, there won't be another Dalglish waiting to take over next time the managerial vacancy at Liverpool opens up, and hopefully that won't be a for a very long time.

[Nicey]

Amen ... I am sorry people calling for his head are douchebags

[Arn]

What a **** article. This is the kind of special protection only because he is the king that is just not on.

He should be treated in the same way as everyone else.

There is only one king yes but he isn't guaranteed success like the article says. He isn't the best manager around like the article says. Another manager could have got better results, who know?

More money spent means quicker results, like in the City case. It would be a difference if the manager got £12m net a season like Rafa.

Rafa got almost the same amount of money to spend once and because of that was expected to make much better results.

The same applies to Kenny. He got a lot of money to spend and is because of that expected to make good results. That means that he must at least be close to fourth place. If we for example finish 10 points off fourth then we haven't made any progress even if we spent a lot of money. No progress isn't ok considering the amount of money he spent.

If we don't make any progress then he must be questioned big time. We can't say it is ok because he is the king. It wouldn't be ok if another manager made the same results.

As I said, a **** article. Like we are never even allowed to question the king because he is the king.

As I already mentioned. His last two jobs before this one ended with the sack. We can't just say that that didn't happen. Why was he sacked? The answer both times is because the results wasn't good enough. That happened you know, it is not something I imagined up. That means that you must question even more if Kenny is the right man for us, is he really good enough?

[Buzzo]

I can't be bothered reading 22 pages of this

[Corndog]

The main thing that changed is that you must now study your opponent many hours looking at clips, videos etc. You must find weaknesses that way. If you have weaknesses yourself then you can be very sure that it will be used against you because the manager that you will be up against will have done his homework and looked at clips etc. He will know about any weakness you may have.

If you play with Lucas and Adam in a 4-4-2 then the weakness they have, mobility, will be used against you. That is one thing Kenny have not corrected. That weakness is used against us in game after game.

Is he using any weakness our opponent may have? No, he isn't. That points to that he hasn't done his homework.

The way he allowed Swansea to pass the ball around was a joke. He did nothing to stop them doing it. Instead he played a starting XI that played them straight into their hands. A midfield that couldn't press them good enough, a striker that have a calf problem and a striker that isn't mobile enough to be able to press them good enough.

Another thing that changed is that the players is trained in a totally different way now. Much more individual training than 20 years ago.

The pitches are also much better. That means that the game is even quicker.

So it is bull**** that nothing changed.

Weak argument. You claim people now use video analysis....mAnagers had the ability and had been watching clips of the opposition during the 1990s when dalglish won the league with Blackburn. I also fail to see how you know what "homework" Kenny has and has not been doing, so both those points are void.

I agree that Lucas and Adam have a lack of pace that would help in the middle but that's a player issue, the problem is not the formation, I'd personally rather see hendo and lucas together.

You talk of him as if he was on the field against Swansea? He didn't do this... He didn't do that.... Wake up! It was the players on the field that didn't do those things.

You also speak of it being paramount to focus on opponents weaknesses and to a degree it is important to acknowledge these, however I think it's far more important for any team to focus mainly on their own performances, rafa was a coach who like yourself seemed to at times become too obsessed with combating the other team rather than let us bring our game to the opposition and thus make them play how we want them to.

I don't think training has changed that much since dalglish last won the league. But programmes are different at every club so it's a futile argument.

As for your last comment about the pitches being faster- are you being serious? Come on.... They made decent pitches in the mid 1990s the same way they do today, if you seriously want to argue about that then you should apply to be wengers assistant. This argument is particularly weak, I can't believe you are implying Kenny is nit fit to manage because he doesn't understand how the pitches are better now

[el matador]

arn... kenny isnt going anywhere.

you might as.well accept it and move on. he will be our manager until the end of the season at the very least and perhaps for many more years to come.

its time to get behind him.

[The Birdman]

I think Arn has argued/disagreed with almost every single poster in this thread.
I'm frustrated by some of our results this season but there is no way Kenny should leave a day before his 3 year contract is up.
That's the minimum time he should spend here as our manager 2nd time around

[Vermilion]

I think Arn has argued/disagreed with almost every single poster in this thread.
I'm frustrated by some of our results this season but there is no way Kenny should leave a day before his 3 year contract is up.
That's the minimum time he should spend here as our manager 2nd time around

Why ? Because everyone want's to tell him the same bloody thing!

[Lecter]

We can't close the gap without the CL because of the new rules. That makes the CL money even more important. Without it we won't be able to close the gap instead the gap will be even bigger.

The club won't be at risk of course but our status as a top club will be gone. We won't be able to challenge the mega rich clubs in the transfer market because of the missed £40m+.

The more or less only way to get a top class player to sign for us would be to offer him £200k+ a week like City did. We wouldn't be able to afford that without the CL money.

The CL money is key if we want to make progress. Without it as I said we will be left behind.

That is how important one single season in the CL is now.

See Newcastle, Arsenal & Tottenham for proof that what you say is rubbish

Not all of them have had CL football cash and yet they are all competing for 4th place

City & United might have the spending power to stay in those positions but the other 2 positions are wide open (even mega-rich Chelsea havent cemented a guaranteed position)

CL is key to the long term progression but short term a half decent business plan would not have that as an essential and integral part of the requirement and to suggest otherwise shows a clear lack of business knowledge

[Lecter]

Under Rafa we dropped home points against Fulham, Stoke, West Ham, Hull City....where was your criticism then? Your agenda is so transparent.

Aye there is a clear agenda here

Arn should get over it Rafa isnt here and isnt coming back anytime soon (if ever)

There are people in senior positions at the club that would in no way endorse a Rafa return so its safe to say whilst they are at the club a Rafa return is nothing more than a "pipedream"

[Lecter]

Weak argument. You claim people now use video analysis....mAnagers had the ability and had been watching clips of the opposition during the 1990s when dalglish won the league with Blackburn. I also fail to see how you know what "homework" Kenny has and has not been doing, so both those points are void.

I agree that Lucas and Adam have a lack of pace that would help in the middle but that's a player issue, the problem is not the formation, I'd personally rather see hendo and lucas together.

You talk of him as if he was on the field against Swansea? He didn't do this... He didn't do that.... Wake up! It was the players on the field that didn't do those things.

You also speak of it being paramount to focus on opponents weaknesses and to a degree it is important to acknowledge these, however I think it's far more important for any team to focus mainly on their own performances, rafa was a coach who like yourself seemed to at times become too obsessed with combating the other team rather than let us bring our game to the opposition and thus make them play how we want them to.

I don't think training has changed that much since dalglish last won the league. But programmes are different at every club so it's a futile argument.

As for your last comment about the pitches being faster- are you being serious? Come on.... They made decent pitches in the mid 1990s the same way they do today, if you seriously want to argue about that then you should apply to be wengers assistant. This argument is particularly weak, I can't believe you are implying Kenny is nit fit to manage because he doesn't understand how the pitches are better now

Arn shows a complete lack of knowledge of the old days

If the previous regimes lacked video footage they had people like Reuben Bennett & Geoff Twentyman who would travel all over England & Europe scouting teams

Liverpool knew the intricacies of the opposition through watching those teams themselves

LFC as a club then were way ahead of their time and often did tactical switches that today are evident and prevailent in many teams play - such Sammy Lee being under instructions to manmark Paul Breitner at Bayern Munich etc...

To suggest that Kenny is incapable of those sort of tactical nuances is insulting and quite frankly downright ignorant