Kenny isn't what we need

[Arn]

You only need to look at Cavani's position at the four goals to know how Carroll should play to get the best out of Suarez.

In the middle at all four goals. Open up so much space for Suarez and creates havoc in the box.

I will never understand why a player like Carroll very often end up in a wide position. Stay in the middle and what you do best. Don't try to do what you are more or useless at. Other players can pick up the ball out wide.

[Neil Young]

You are absolutely right that it is too early to make concrete judgements however I don't think it's unreasonable to say that from now until the end of December will be the period that we find out whether this team and manager are capable of getting 4th.

Obviously it depends where we are but I doubt we'll be so far away it's going to be impossible to get fourth. You are also conflating the ability of the team with the ability of the manager. We all know it took Ferguson six years to win the league but events have proven he was capable of doing it; so the idea Dalglish deserves only four months (i.e. another six weeks) to mould his own team before we judge whether he has the ability to get fourth is hardly any better than deciding now.

And also I mentioned "what is required by the board" - I don't think fourth is the be all and end all.

[~LFCHistory~]

Obviously it depends where we are but I doubt we'll be so far away it's going to be impossible to get fourth. You are also conflating the ability of the team with the ability of the manager. We all know it took Ferguson six years to win the league but events have proven he was capable of doing it; so the idea Dalglish deserves only four months (i.e. another six weeks) to mould his own team before we judge whether he has the ability to get fourth is hardly any better than deciding now.

And also I mentioned "what is required by the board" - I don't think fourth is the be all and end all.

Sorry but the example of Ferguson isn't relevant. Football and the world in general is so much more impatient and knee jerk than what it was in the 80's. Managers simply are not given the time and patience they once were, whether that is the right way to do things is irrelevant because that's just how things are now.

When I said that were we are at the end of December will give us a good indication of whether or not this team and manager are capable of getting 4th I wasn't talking about league position. I was talking about quality of football, mentality of the players and whether or not the manager can recognise his own mistakes, find a solution and adapt. 3 very difficult fixtures coming up, Chelsea, Man City and Chelsea again, those 3 games will tell us a lot about our CL aspirations.

[dww]

Sorry but the example of Ferguson isn't relevant. Football and the world in general is so much more impatient and knee jerk than what it was in the 80's. Managers simply are not given the time and patience they once were, whether that is the right way to do things is irrelevant because that's just how things are now.

When I said that were we are at the end of December will give us a good indication of whether or not this team and manager are capable of getting 4th I wasn't talking about league position. I was talking about quality of football, mentality of the players and whether or not the manager can recognise his own mistakes, find a solution and adapt. 3 very difficult fixtures coming up, Chelsea, Man City and Chelsea again, those 3 games will tell us a lot about our CL aspirations.

That makes no sense though - why be impatient just because others are? If the best course is stability, as seems perfectly plausible, why demand change just because it is what others do? We as a club and as supporters do have a choice and pretending otherwise is a far from convincing position to argue from.

Recent campaigns have suggested that many teams have very different first and second halves of the season. It is conceivable that we will be so far adrift that 4th becomes unreasonable but I don't think it is likely to be clear cut either way.

[Nicey]

Another way to look at is if Even KEnny Dalglsh cannot be afforded one full season without sections f the fans getting in his back or worse yet .. Not even been given to Christmass, with him one game off the pace ... What hope does anybody else have ... Whilst I respect other fans opinions .. I can't help thinking this is beyond the pale and just reconfirms my thoughts on the modern sky's ports generation fan base

[Exiled_red]

That makes no sense though - why be impatient just because others are? If the best course is stability, as seems perfectly plausible, why demand change just because it is what others do? We as a club and as supporters do have a choice and pretending otherwise is a far from convincing position to argue from.

Recent campaigns have suggested that many teams have very different first and second halves of the season. It is conceivable that we will be so far adrift that 4th becomes unreasonable but I don't think it is likely to be clear cut either way.

Another way to look at is if Even KEnny Dalglsh cannot be afforded one full season without sections f the fans getting in his back or worse yet .. Not even been given to Christmass, with him one game off the pace ... What hope does anybody else have ... Whilst I respect other fans opinions .. I can't help thinking this is beyond the pale and just reconfirms my thoughts on the modern sky's ports generation fan base

[~LFCHistory~]

That makes no sense though - why be impatient just because others are? If the best course is stability, as seems perfectly plausible, why demand change just because it is what others do? We as a club and as supporters do have a choice and pretending otherwise is a far from convincing position to argue from.

Recent campaigns have suggested that many teams have very different first and second halves of the season. It is conceivable that we will be so far adrift that 4th becomes unreasonable but I don't think it is likely to be clear cut either way.

Understand what you're saying but I am fairly certain that if we continue our current form and Dalglish continues selecting players for the starting 11 for reasons other than form then gradually the pressure will mount and the number of dissenting voices will grow. It's the nature of modern football and the Sky generation.

[Arn]

Sorry but the example of Ferguson isn't relevant. Football and the world in general is so much more impatient and knee jerk than what it was in the 80's. Managers simply are not given the time and patience they once were, whether that is the right way to do things is irrelevant because that's just how things are now.

When I said that were we are at the end of December will give us a good indication of whether or not this team and manager are capable of getting 4th I wasn't talking about league position. I was talking about quality of football, mentality of the players and whether or not the manager can recognise his own mistakes, find a solution and adapt. 3 very difficult fixtures coming up, Chelsea, Man City and Chelsea again, those 3 games will tell us a lot about our CL aspirations.

That makes no sense though - why be impatient just because others are? If the best course is stability, as seems perfectly plausible, why demand change just because it is what others do? We as a club and as supporters do have a choice and pretending otherwise is a far from convincing position to argue from.

Recent campaigns have suggested that many teams have very different first and second halves of the season. It is conceivable that we will be so far adrift that 4th becomes unreasonable but I don't think it is likely to be clear cut either way.

Missing out on around £40m-£50m could play a part. That is the kind of money you miss out on if you miss out on a CL place. That means that one unsuccessful season cost the club much more than it did 20 years ago.

We have missed out at least £80m the last two seasons because we didn't play in the CL.

That means that if you are a manager at a club like Liverpool FC then you must more or less be a success from season one. We can't afford to miss out on £40m+ every season and see our rivals get that money instead.

[The Birdman]

I'm sorry but Kuyt couldn't have done anymore with that cross, he was at full stretch as it is and Henderson's while a good chance, still wasn't easy as the ball was above him, world class crosses would have better than those two where, they were good balls in, but not world class and certainly not as easy to finish as made out.

Downing was generally terrible against United

I'm sorry but you're having a laugh and seeing what you want to suit your opinion or agenda.
Both Kuyt and Henderson should have scored, end of argument. Both 6-8 yards out with just the keeper to beat, exactly the same as Carroll last week against Swansea.
Those deliveries from Downing are world class, not arguing that the rest of his overall play needs to improve but he puts quality delivery into the box that we haven't had since John Barnes.

[RichC]

yup no way should any of those chances been missed, crosses were on the money but the finishing was poor.

[Arn]

If the big money in the CL didn't exist then the managers would get more time to build up a club.

You can say the same about the PL. If it wasn't such a big gap between playing in the PL and the Championship then a lot less managers would be sacked.

Money, money, money.

£40m+ means at least one top class player. Money that our rival will use to strengthen the squad even more and widen the gap even more.

Because of the new rules we can't compensate that loss in any way.

A CL place is simply a must or the gap will be even bigger.

[dww]

Missing out on around £40m-£50m could play a part. That is the kind of money you miss out on if you miss out on a CL place. That means that one unsuccessful season cost the club much more than it did 20 years ago.

We have missed out at least £80m the last two seasons because we didn't play in the CL.

That means that if you are a manager at a club like Liverpool FC then you must more or less be a success from season one. We can't afford to miss out on £40m+ every season and see our rivals get that money instead.

Can you really make those simple equations though. I think even without CL football our revenue has been better than Spurs and we have had at least as much to spend as Arsenal have. Our revenue streams also seem to keep growing. Whilst CL football brings noticeable extra revenue I'm not sure that it always brings quite the vast disparity in spending power that is sometimes suggested.

Obviously the positives we have won't last forever and we do need to progress but I think there is a somewhat exaggerated sense of the desperateness of everything in most discussions of things at present.

[cled the red]

Maybe I should remind you Lec that you called Zlatan Ibrahimovic a **** player.

Maybe someone should then tell you that he is regarded as one of the best players that ever played in the Italian league. If you look the players that played in that league then he is up there at the very best.

That is not only my opinion. It is the opinion of the players themselves.

He also scored a lot of goals at Barcelona and made a lot of assists.

Villa must be a **** player, he isn't scoring more goals a game at Barcelona than Ibra did. It is a pity that they must carry such a **** player.

I won't call you an idiot for having your opinion. You are free to have whatever opinion you want. I won't post insulting pictures etc.

Cos he is!!! He is without doubt the most overrated player in world football - whenever he comes up against decent opposition he is anonymous for 90 minutes making no contribution whatsoever. I could score goals for Barcelona in the Spanish league - even you Arn could possibly score 20 + goals a season for them.

[BringbackBiscan]

Zlatan is far from ****. He's one of the best centre forwards about. A poor run of games against English clubs in the champions league has warped the English public's opinion on him, most of these have only seen him play in those games too.

You don't lead the line for Ajax, Milan, Inter & Barca in league winning seasons by being ****.

[Nicey]

Cos he is!!! He is without doubt the most overrated player in world football - whenever he comes up against decent opposition he is anonymous for 90 minutes making no contribution whatsoever. I could score goals for Barcelona in the Spanish league - even you Arn could possibly score 20 + goals a season for them.

he's a ****** also .. If I was not such a Zen like individual I would love to give him a spinning round house to his thick bullying noggin ... Obviously has talent but certainly overrated