Kenny isn't what we need

[Arn]

Missing out on £40 million per annum when you are in debt and have MASSIVE loan repayments to make is very different to missing out on £40 million when you arent burdened by such collossal interest payments

Yes ideally you would like that money but it isnt an absolute necessity in the short term

A good businessman/business model would have included the possibility of NOT being in the CL for a couple of years (or maybe more)

We can't close the gap without the CL because of the new rules. That makes the CL money even more important. Without it we won't be able to close the gap instead the gap will be even bigger.

The club won't be at risk of course but our status as a top club will be gone. We won't be able to challenge the mega rich clubs in the transfer market because of the missed £40m+.

The more or less only way to get a top class player to sign for us would be to offer him £200k+ a week like City did. We wouldn't be able to afford that without the CL money.

The CL money is key if we want to make progress. Without it as I said we will be left behind.

That is how important one single season in the CL is now.

[Craig_H]

Arn, being honest, do you ever get bored of your own continuously repeated posts?

[Arn]

Arn, being honest, do you ever get bored of your own continuously repeated posts?

Ehmmm......56002

[Assassin]

He should replace "Always confused" with "Cut and Paste"

[Craig_H]

Ehmmm......56002

Yes, but yours are basically the SAME post, submitted four and a half thousand odd times

He should replace "Always confused" with "Cut and Paste"

[Arn]

If I didn't thought that we more or less must get a top four place this season then I would never want Kenny replaced.

As FSG already themselves mentioned. A top four place this season is more or less the minimum target. Not that exact words but that is what they meant.

That clearly show that they know how important a top four place this season is. They are not idiots.

I will repeat myself again Without the CL money we won't be able to close the gap because of the FFP.

The rules didn't exist two three years ago. That meant that you could close the gap even if you missed out on the CL.

Without the CL money next season it will be even tougher to get a top four place the 2012-13 season.

[The Birdman]

**** off, its is not an agenda, yes Henderson could have done better, but what the hell was Kuyt supposed to do? Grow?

Kuyts chance was probably difficult as you have said BUT the forwards as a whole have missed chances I would expect them to take

Apart from the odd isolated incident (like Kuyt) there have been other glaring misses that should have been taken

That said I'd like to see more from Downing he started ok but recently (and despite those stats posted earlier in this thread) his performances havent been up to scratch

Personally i would expect an international forward to get a decent contact on a volley 6 yards from goal from a ball that he has seen travel 30 yards or so with no one challenging him.
As chances go its gilt edge.

We'd all like to see more from Downing but he has never been a tricky beat a man winger, always a hard working, fuctional wide player who has excellent delivery from open play.

[Mattshark]

Personally i would expect an international forward to get a decent contact on a volley 6 yards from goal from a ball that he has seen travel 30 yards or so with no one challenging him.
As chances go its gilt edge.

We'd all like to see more from Downing but he has never been a tricky beat a man winger, always a hard working, fuctional wide player who has excellent delivery from open play.

He got as good a contact as he was going to get and got his shot on target.

His delivery really isn't excellent, it is imo a lot better from set pieces too and to be honest, I couldn't care less about him having tricks or beat a man, I more concerned by his lack of intelligent ball use.

[~LFCHistory~]

I wondered if that's what you were talking about but it's just as premature as using points to make the call. And you keep banging on about Dalglish recognising his mistakes (as though he hasn't shown flexibility, which he has) and picking players because of they are or how much he paid for them (which is more than an unproven assumption, it's simply wrong, which is why Carroll isn't in the team much these days).

I mentioned Ferguson because it's clear you (and others) are repeating the received wisdom of short-termist, alarmist pseudoanalysis. I said Dalglish will keep his job IMO if FSG see signs of continued progress. Fourth might well show that but it doesn't guarantee it. And the opposite is also true - not getting fourth would make replacing Dalglish more likely but it doesn't guarantee it.

Note also I mentioned Ferguson winning the title, not six years to get fourth. Now I think it's unlikely the manager would get a full six years but if we came close, got far in the CL, etc. then it's not impossible. Yet you seem to think it is. Er, how long was Rafa boss for before he got sacked? Let's see, he came in 2004 and left in 2010...

So we don't have to go back to Ferguson to see a manager getting six years in charge without a title but we do have to go back that far to see one of the best managers of all time (and very possibly the best if we're honest about it) taking six years to win a title. So to take less than a year to judge the ability of a manager who won the f*cking Double in his first season as manager and has won the league elsewhere since is not only indefensible, it's moronic.

I understand what you're saying about Ferguson and what Dalglish achieved 25 years ago but as I said earlier football and it's supporters have changed so massively over the last 20 years that those examples are barely relevant in the modern era.
You believe that Dalglish will still be manager for a long time whether we finish in the top 4 or not, I disagree. The booing after the Swansea game showed that there is the potential for open dissent, now whether that booing was directed at Dalglish or some of our players I honestly don't know. But what it demonstrated is that while our manager is a club legend many of our fans will not give him special treatment because of his reputation.
The seeds of doubt have been planted in a considerable number of fans minds beacuse the manager's persistent use of an old fashioned formation in 442 and the continued selection of Adam, Henderson, Downing and Carroll regardless of their form at the expense of quality players like Maxi, Spearing and Bellamy. If we lose than 1 of the next 3 games and Dalglish continues with the formation and players that I mentioned then more and more fans will begin to have doubts.
Oh and John Henry himself said that anything other than CL qualification this season would be ''disappointing'' - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...n-W-Henry.html

[Arn]

I understand what you're saying about Ferguson and what Dalglish achieved 25 years ago but as I said earlier football and it's supporters have changed so massively over the last 20 years that those examples are barely relevant in the modern era.
You believe that Dalglish will still be manager for a long time whether we finish in the top 4 or not, I disagree. The booing after the Swansea game showed that there is the potential for open dissent, now whether that booing was directed at Dalglish or some of our players I honestly don't know. But what it demonstrated is that while our manager is a club legend many of our fans will not give him special treatment because of his reputation.
The seeds of doubt have been planted in a considerable number of fans minds beacuse the manager's persistent use of an old fashioned formation in 442 and the continued selection of Adam, Henderson, Downing and Carroll regardless of their form at the expense of quality players like Maxi, Spearing and Bellamy. If we lose than 1 of the next 3 games and Dalglish continues with the formation and players that I mentioned then more and more fans will begin to have doubts.
Oh and John Henry himself said that anything other than CL qualification this season would be ''disappointing'' - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...n-W-Henry.html

He shouldn't get any special treatment because he is the king. That is just not on. He should be judged in the same way as everyone else legend or no legend.

We can't afford to give him special treatment. The club is much much more important than him.

If the results is good enough then he stays. If the results isn't good enough then we must replace him.

If another manager had started this season in the same way then many more of us would question him. Now many don't do it just because he is the king.

[Craig_H]

He shouldn't get any special treatment because he is the king. That is just not on. He should be judged in the same way as everyone else legend or no legend.

We can't afford to give him special treatment. The club is much much more important than him.

If the results is good enough then he stays. If the results isn't good enough then we must replace him.

If another manager had started this season in the same way then many more of us would question him. Now many don't do it just because he is the king.

With respect, i think that is bollocks. We're 3 points off 4th place for ****'s sake.

[Daniel 7]

Getting a bit tedious this now. It was more interesting laughing at Zlatan's gay pic.

[Craig_H]

A bit tedious?

[Corndog]

I understand what you're saying about Ferguson and what Dalglish achieved 25 years ago but as I said earlier football and it's supporters have changed so massively over the last 20 years that those examples are barely relevant in the modern era.
You believe that Dalglish will still be manager for a long time whether we finish in the top 4 or not, I disagree. The booing after the Swansea game showed that there is the potential for open dissent, now whether that booing was directed at Dalglish or some of our players I honestly don't know. But what it demonstrated is that while our manager is a club legend many of our fans will not give him special treatment because of his reputation.
The seeds of doubt have been planted in a considerable number of fans minds beacuse the manager's persistent use of an old fashioned formation in 442 and the continued selection of Adam, Henderson, Downing and Carroll regardless of their form at the expense of quality players like Maxi, Spearing and Bellamy. If we lose than 1 of the next 3 games and Dalglish continues with the formation and players that I mentioned then more and more fans will begin to have doubts.
Oh and John Henry himself said that anything other than CL qualification this season would be ''disappointing'' - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...n-W-Henry.html

Football has not changed alot over the years, tell me what fundamental part of the game has changed? you still have to get the ball in the back of the net, you still have to tackle, you still have 2 posts at either end? This is exactly what Dalglish said when he took over and was asked the same stupid question inferring that he may be 'out of date', he replied saying it hasn't and i agree completely with him. People are fooled into believing it has, in the same way that many fans are fooled into thinking they know exactly what formation will do the trick, you're totally right about 4-4-2, if kenny had played 4-2-3-1 or something else we would be 3 points clear at the top.....even if you want to argue the formation is the problem, its largely irrelevant....because its not as though in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 the players suddenly go "hang on, we're in this formation now? we can convert more of our chances more"

It is the players who have not converted enough of their chances or managed to score despite healthy spells of dominating games, granted they have had some bad luck which hasn't helped. (although i'd like to stress im not having a go at them either)

what has changed since Kenny last won the league as manager, is an even more powerful brand in the premierleague and thus with more money, a far more competitive league. The growth in technology and other forms of media has lead to more intense pressure put on managers, some fans have become consumers who think they have a right to see their team always win because they paid for it. Perhaps also greater information on diet and physical training have improved players fitness and performances. Players also are as likely to take to the field in pink boots as they are black ones. Asides from these points i fail to see how the actual game has changed, however i do think fans growing awareness of the technical side of the game tricks them into thinking they are masters of it, but don't you know everybody wins the treble on football manager? , so much so that if their team doesn't perform they come up with over-complex reasons for losing without even asking themselves "did our team even do the basics right today?" usually the answer is no.

I really loathe pointing to the example of barca, but they are a team who always do the basics right, it wouldn't matter what formation they lined up in, of course it obviously helps when you have a superstar in every position.

Achievements in football 25 years ago are not irrelevant at all. to suggest so is laughable. You don't lose game intelligence which Dalglish has to have in bundles because he has won the league as a player and a manager. It is for this reason that i still think he is the best person to manage liverpool, even if you take away his hero status, he is somebody who has done it all with regards to the game, why wouldn't you want that person to manage you?

of course those people who think we should sign a manager who has never won the league are right

[Arn]

With respect, i think that is bollocks. We're 3 points off 4th place for ****'s sake.

We have dropped points at home against Sunderland, Swansea and Norwich. We should have got nine points from those three games.

I can't say that we have taken one single unexpected point so far this season. Not a single one but we have dropped points in games we should have won.

We won away against a very weak Arsenal team. That is really the only highlight so far this season.