Kenny isn't what we need

[Vermilion]

Totally whole heartly agree what an utter utter disgrace these people are they should be well and truly ashamed and embarrassed Such a poor show its not funny certainly not the kind of people you would want having your back

Disagree, they have a different opinion is all, and it has absolutely nothing to do with a persons character or whether they are the type of person you'd want "keeping your back".

Real life important things are where you judge if someone is the type to keep your back when the chips are really down, and not football opinions. imo.

None of us kept the Bodgers back when he was Liverpool manager, did we ? are all lfc fans the type of people you would'nt want keeping your back, or does it only apply to those who have doubts about Kenny ?

It's just football, important to all of us yes, i agree, but not a way to judge a persons character by who he wants or does'nt want as manager....not imo anyway, all you can do is judge a persons football knowledge by such things.

[The Birdman]

I said at the time we signed Downing that he is a very effective, under rated player. Yes he could play a lot better but so could nearly every other player to play for us this season.
I watched him live against Man U and he was solid all game and produced 2 world class crosses in the last 15 minutes which both Kuyt and Henderson should have scored from.

With regards to Lec v Arn then it's Lector all the way, I get pissed off with LFC fans who are blind to Suarez's failings in front of goal, yes he is a world class player, yes he has been our best and one of the PL's best players this season but my god he has missed some very easy, straight forward chances.
I'd be happy to wager he has missed more 'easy' chances than any other world class striker in the PL this season.

[Lee]

Our target is top 4 and we are on course. We are making the chances and i have no doubt we will start putting them away in no time. Our form atm average, and yet we are still only 3 points of Chelsea.

I can't agree with that mate.

I don't think we're on course - we're 6th at the moment with City, United, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal are now looking stronger. We're clearly not well out of the race, but I don't think we're on course sadly.

Disagree, they have a different opinion is all, and it has absolutely nothing to do with a persons character or whether they are the type of person you'd want "keeping your back".

Real life important things are where you judge if someone is the type to keep your back when the chips are really down, and not football opinions. imo.

None of us kept the Bodgers back when he was Liverpool manager, did we ? are all lfc fans the type of people you would'nt want keeping your back, or does it only apply to those who have doubts about Kenny ?

It's just football, important to all of us yes, i agree, but not a way to judge a persons character by who he wants or does'nt want as manager....not imo anyway, all you can do is judge a persons football knowledge by such things.

Well said mate.

[Nicey]

Disagree, they have a different opinion is all, and it has absolutely nothing to do with a persons character or whether they are the type of person you'd want "keeping your back".

Real life important things are where you judge if someone is the type to keep your back when the chips are really down, and not football opinions. imo.

None of us kept the Bodgers back when he was Liverpool manager, did we ? are all lfc fans the type of people you would'nt want keeping your back, or does it only apply to those who have doubts about Kenny ?

It's just football, important to all of us yes, i agree, but not a way to judge a persons character by who he wants or does'nt want as manager....not imo anyway, all you can do is judge a persons football knowledge by such things.

Of course you are right and I am wrong ...... **** that felt weird ...

[Mattshark]

I said at the time we signed Downing that he is a very effective, under rated player. Yes he could play a lot better but so could nearly every other player to play for us this season.
I watched him live against Man U and he was solid all game and produced 2 world class crosses in the last 15 minutes which both Kuyt and Henderson should have scored from.

With regards to Lec v Arn then it's Lector all the way, I get pissed off with LFC fans who are blind to Suarez's failings in front of goal, yes he is a world class player, yes he has been our best and one of the PL's best players this season but my god he has missed some very easy, straight forward chances.
I'd be happy to wager he has missed more 'easy' chances than any other world class striker in the PL this season.

I'm sorry but Kuyt couldn't have done anymore with that cross, he was at full stretch as it is and Henderson's while a good chance, still wasn't easy as the ball was above him, world class crosses would have better than those two where, they were good balls in, but not world class and certainly not as easy to finish as made out.

Downing was generally terrible against United

[Arn]

Not read any of the previous 700+ posts on this but ffs, if anyone thinks the best option for this club is to sack Kenny, they should be banned with immediate effect, pending an investigation into their deluded views.

Our target is top 4 and we are on course. We are making the chances and i have no doubt we will start putting them away in no time. Our form atm average, and yet we are still only 3 points of Chelsea.

Lets get behind Kenny and the team. We are not going to win the league, that was obvious in the summer. Citeh are too strong atm. But we will finish 4th atleast, I am sure. Kenny has made a massive difference as it is in the way we are playing and the fact people were even mentioning us with a chance of winning the league shows our progression from last season.

We finished 6th and 7th last 2 seasons, so reasonable progression would be a CL place finish. Its not going to be easy with Arsenal, Utd, Chelsea and Spurs in the mix, but I have full faith in Kenny.

And if we fail to beat City and Chelsea, I will still support Kenny. Changing manager ain't going to help. I don't want to go back to seeing threads like Sack Parry, Sack Rafa, Sack Broughton and Purslow, H&G Out.

If we lose both against City and Chelsea then we could be NINE points off fourth place. Is that on course. If we lose our next two games then almost every game would be a must win game or the season would be over.

Is that on course?

I just happen to believe that Kenny version 2011 isn't good enough. Nothing more, nothing less. He was excellent 15 years or so ago but he hasn't proved yet that he is the right man for us. Time will tell.

Football is so different now compared to 15 years ago.

Kenny do make many big mistakes even if some people don't agree. That is what you expect a manager to do when he been out something like 10 years.

His last two jobs before this one ended with the sack because he didn't deliver. Kenny do make some very strange decisions like when he was at Celtic at signed up Barnes as manager. A joke decision.

So far the results hasn't been good enough this season. I will change my opinion and say that he is good enough if the results get better.

His signings this summer wasn't good enough by a long way. It is very strange that Lecter completely ignores that Downing have 0 goals and 0 assists so far. Compare that to the other players that is mentioned in the stats.

Lecter isn't even close to be looking at the whole picture.

0 goals and 0 assists so far is a joke. Compare that with Maxi the last months of last season. Maxi totally outclass Downing.

Downing was a mistake. We don't need him. We a need a player that can deliver goals and assists and not just maybes.

We can't afford to play with an attacking player that isn't a goal threat. Either Downing start to deliver NOW or he should be sold in January.

[el matador]

FSG will never get rid of kenny midway through a season.

its suicide and theyre not stupid. if we were down near the bottom of the league they might contemplate it but while were near the fourth place spot its not even an option. The fans would turn against them really quickly and the next manager wouldnt have a chance.

I have my own doubts about tactics and formations but who doesnt. A thousand people could watch a match and you'd end up with one thousand differing opinions. If by xmas we're well and truly out of the race for fourth then we wont be buying any major players in the january transfer window and it will be the clearest indication that kenny wont be in charge next season.

Its time for us to sit tight, get behind Kenny & the team and see what happens over the next two or three months.

Mattshark - i think that downing has suffered because the duffers in front of goal keep messing up his crosses. he's hit the bar twice and with a bit more luck he could have had at least 2 goals and four or five assists which would have been a very positive start. As a wide player if you dont have belief in the strikers you stop delivering the crosses and look for the easy lateral passes instead.

in time he will become the steady option and we will have another desequilibrante on the right. Downing will become on the left hand side what dirk kuyt is on the right and what houghton was earlier. A right sided midfield player who will create goals, score them, work back and help out the central midfield areas. Not flashy but a solid performer who will get seven to eight out of 10 every match.

Then its down to the right hand sided player ie a christian eriksen, a mario goetze, an eden hazard to beat his man, cause havoc for the opposition defence and create space for the others.

[Shaggy]

Can a cross be world class? Anyone can cross a good ball. I never got further than Sunday League but about 9 out of 10 of my corners were absolutely on the button.

You look at Spain and Barcelona now and they'd rather pass it 5 yards and sideways than cross it, which seems a very "percentages" way of going about things. They eschew corner kicks in favour of getting their passing going again. I dunno what the stats are but I imagine the conversion rate from crosses is very low and strikes me as a pretty inefficient way of going about scoring goals in the modern game.

[Fredo]

Can a cross be world class? Anyone can cross a good ball. I never got further than Sunday League but about 9 out of 10 of my corners were absolutely on the button.

You look at Spain and Barcelona now and they'd rather pass it 5 yards and sideways than cross it, which seems a very "percentages" way of going about things. They eschew corner kicks in favour of getting their passing going again. I dunno what the stats are but I imagine the conversion rate from crosses is very low and strikes me as a pretty inefficient way of going about scoring goals in the modern game.

I never understood the concept of buying a tall centre forward and use a tactic based on "providing quality crosses". Surely, tippy tappy **** is more precise than crossing the ball in an already crowded area and from quite a distance.

[Shaggy]

Maybe I'm just a football fashion victim ....I know a very good cut-back or low cross can be practically impossible to defend ('the corridor of uncertainty' ), but you need so many variables in your favour.

[Fredo]

We never really played with wingers per se anyway. Barnesy at his best was much more than a winger but he could still deliver a perfect cross. That cross for Aldridge in the FA Cup semi against Forest.

[dww]

I think there is something in what Mostar says about a problem with the players on the end of crosses. The positioning of players looks wrong to me (particularly Carrolls). Rafa seemed to get Torres to be bang on at this. At the minute our players never seem set or in dangerous positions when crosses come in. It has to help a wide player to have well defined targets to aim for.

Not sure I really believe there is only on way to play effective football. For several years Arsenal have been attempting 'this tippy-tappy ****' and failing to convert it into enough wins. I think United have generally had a sound balance. At the minute we are seeking it.

[badpiggy]

I don't get the weird tone to this thread. There's more people ranting about posters supposedly wanting Kenny sacked than there are posters or even posts suggesting this, aside from Arn's first one. I love the way some people extrapolate from chatty pointless opinions about football tactics that individuals would be useless under enemy fire.

Does any one else share this opinion: In a recent poll I just asked myself, I chose answer (a)

Do you think we will win the league under Kenny?

(a) Obviously I haven't a ****in clue/crystal ball but I suspect we won't.

(b) Obviously I haven't a ****in clue/crystal ball but I suspect we will.

And can I just point out that this opinion

(a) Does not mean I want Kenny sacked.

(b) Gives zero indication of my trustworthiness in combat.

(c) And that an opinion that Kenny should be sacked, while being hasty/stupid/etc is not an indication of "disloyalty" which is really just a concept that suits criminals and ****s who **** up on a regular basis but expect people to take the rap with them.

[Shaggy]

Not sure I really believe there is only on way to play effective football. For several years Arsenal have been attempting 'this tippy-tappy ****' and failing to convert it into enough wins. I think United have generally had a sound balance. At the minute we are seeking it.

Yeah, I don't think anyone's advocating playing only one way....but as a United fan mate of mine asked in the summer, "have you spent £55m for six or seven headed goals a season?"

Six or seven headers looks ambitious now.

Re Downing, crossing is supposedly his greatest asset. It looks his only asset to me and even then he's hit and miss. We've seen more crosses blasted against opposition legs than we've seen land on the target's head/boot.

[dww]

Yeah, I don't think anyone's advocating playing only one way....but as a United fan mate of mine asked in the summer, "have you spent £55m for six or seven headed goals a season?"

Six or seven headers looks ambitious now.

Re Downing, crossing is supposedly his greatest asset. It looks his only asset to me and even then he's hit and miss. We've seen as many crosses blasted against opposition legs than we've seen land on the target's head/boot.

I really don't think that it is a fair summary of what Downing brings to a team which he serves well. He widens the midfield area well and is sound defensively. I would suggest the Downing would be as good as almost anyone in the league at crossing. The things you highlight are what you see with everyone. I think there is a problem at the minute in terms of timing between him and those in the box. Even then the chances created stats would suggest he is doing pretty well at most of his job.

At the minute the team isn't coming together and it is easy to argue that we have spent a lot of money and it hasn't happened but I do think we have to give it time to gel. I'm not completely convinced by a lot of things in our current approach but I really think there is a danger of conflating the fact that we aren't quite getting things right at the minute with us never being able to do that.