Kenny isn't what we need

[Neil Young]

I havent argued the club is in peril

I dont remember calling for the managers head, asking for changes in formation, team selection etc... (unlike someone else)

All I have stated is that the team isnt converting the chances that you would expect players (all of them) of their quality to be taking comfortably

No you haven't argued it but you're arguing with someone who has explicitly stated as much which makes it much harder for you to convince him about the minutiae.

Nobody is arguing this

The only thing I have constantly been saying is that those blaming other players for our failings should also point the finger at him

Hes as guilty as ANYBODY else for wasting chances (no matter who created them)

At the end of the day scoring goals is the most important stat

to have one of the highest number of shots on goal and only have low conversion rates shows our problem isnt necessarily to do with teamwork, tactics, creativity etc..

Its putting the ball in the net

Dont put words in my mouth

I never said it is all his fault

Hes as much to blame as others

Hes missed as many chances as Carroll, Downing etc.....

If you are gonna slaughter them for failing in that department he has to also take some blame (no matter how good he is)

...And this is why you're having to respond to all this at such length. For the record I'd tend to agree with a lot of what you say but I don't have a clue why you're bothering to keep saying it.

I want to state I'm not in anyway advocating dropping him or anything like that, but despite marvelling at his general ability his finishing is very disappointing (for a player of that calibre)

As our main goal threat he'll undoubtedly be judged on his goal tally at the end of the season

And then you say something like that. It's so easy to misinterpret. He'll be judged on his goal tally but not just that.

Ultimately what this argument fails to acknowledge is that it's a team game. Unless you're a coach or picking the team then I don't see how picking it all apart gets us anywhere and we lack the information to make any definitive judgements about any of it.

The team wins or the team draws or the team loses. Everything else is guesswork.

[Norbs]

Suarez isn't only signed to score goals. Carroll on the other hand is an out and out striker and should score a lot more than he do.

Henderson and Downing play in two attacking positions and should act that way on the pitch. Now they act more like two defensive wingers than attacking ones.

Enrique is very often more attacking than Downing. Johnson/Kelly is very often more attacking than Henderson.

Both full backs are rampaging forward at every opportunity, have you not considered that this may well be under the manager's instructions? What do wingers do when their corresponding full back overlaps?

[Sebastian Rooks]

I want to state I'm not in anyway advocating dropping him or anything like that, but despite marvelling at his general ability his finishing is very disappointing (for a player of that calibre)

As our main goal threat he'll undoubtedly be judged on his goal tally at the end of the season

I have to agree, at the moment I think he still flatters to deceive. He looks brilliant but some of his attempts at finishing are way two extrovert, he just needs to put his foot through it sometimes and score the goal rather than going for the spectacular finish all the time.

[Norbs]

I want to state I'm not in anyway advocating dropping him or anything like that, but despite marvelling at his general ability his finishing is very disappointing (for a player of that calibre)

As our main goal threat he'll undoubtedly be judged on his goal tally at the end of the season

I'd really love to see him deployed in a 3 pronged attacking midfield behind Kuyt. All Kuyt's dreams answered IMO, he's built for mopping up and sticking the ball in the back of the net from close range.

[Sebastian Rooks]

The way I see it is:-

1 ) Our target for the season was top 4 to be in the Champions League nothing more than this with our current crop of players.

2) Were 3 points off the top 4 with just less than 3 /4 of the season to play.

3) This thread is ridiculous.

[Lecter]

Suarez isn't only signed to score goals. Carroll on the other hand is an out and out striker and should score a lot more than he do.

Henderson and Downing play in two attacking positions and should act that way on the pitch. Now they act more like two defensive wingers than attacking ones.

Enrique is very often more attacking than Downing. Johnson/Kelly is very often more attacking than Henderson.

Carroll isnt an out and out striker

Hes a ****ing target man

You seriously expected him to be our main goal threat, if you did you are more mental than I thought

Downing I've said previously I dont rate him hes probably the one change I would make, BUT again those stats show that he is being effective to some degree despite my reservations

You seem blind to the fact that even with defensive midfield players like Downing/Henderson etc.. we are still creating more than enough chances to bury teams

But we arent taking them

You can only blame the players for missing those chances (not the system/formation & tactics)

[Arn]

He'd get more chances BUT would his conversion rate improve beyond 11 or 12% - who knows

Hell Andy Carroll would probably score more goals playing for Barcelona

I'd score ****ing goals in that Barcelona side frankly and I'm going on 40, have two ****ed knees a knackered ankle and am permanently pissed

I think I can guarantee that you wouldn't score a lot more goals at Barcelona because you are simply not good enough and according to you isn't that mobile. You would be taken out of the game straight away and because of you being so **** then the other players wouldn't create as many chances and they wouldn't win the ball back as often as they do. Less ball possession etc.

If you want to play at Barcelona then you will need to have excellent movement, excellent ball control, excellent game intelligence and excellent vision. You must also be excellent winning the ball back and excellent chasing the ball.

[Lecter]

he's built for mopping up and sticking the ball in the back of the net from close range.

Not convinced of that

[Vermilion]

Both full backs are rampaging forward at every opportunity, have you not considered that this may well be under the manager's instructions? What do wingers do when their corresponding full back overlaps?

Yes that's true, but if it's happening so often that the wingers end up doing more defending than the rampaging defenders then surely the best thing would be for them to swap poisitions, then the wingers would spend more time in their correct position as would the defenders.

[Lecter]

I think I can guarantee that you wouldn't score a lot more goals at Barcelona because you are simply not good enough and according to you isn't that mobile. You would be taken out of the game straight away and because of you being so **** then the other players wouldn't create as many chances and they wouldn't win the ball back as often as they do. Less ball possession etc.

If you want to play at Barcelona then you will need to have excellent movement, excellent ball control, excellent game intelligence and excellent vision. You must also be excellent winning the ball back and excellent chasing the ball.

They carried Ibrahimovic for 12 months, so there is no reason why they couldnt carry me

[Fredo]

I think I can guarantee that you wouldn't score a lot more goals at Barcelona because you are simply not good enough and according to you isn't that mobile. You would be taken out of the game straight away and because of you being so **** then the other players wouldn't create as many chances and they wouldn't win the ball back as often as they do. Less ball possession etc.

If you want to play at Barcelona then you will need to have excellent movement, excellent ball control, excellent game intelligence and excellent vision. You must also be excellent winning the ball back and excellent chasing the ball.

[Dalglish]

I think I can guarantee that you wouldn't score a lot more goals at Barcelona because you are simply not good enough and according to you isn't that mobile. You would be taken out of the game straight away and because of you being so **** then the other players wouldn't create as many chances and they wouldn't win the ball back as often as they do. Less ball possession etc.

If you want to play at Barcelona then you will need to have excellent movement, excellent ball control, excellent game intelligence and excellent vision. You must also be excellent winning the ball back and excellent chasing the ball.

That's ****ing told you Lec

"ALCOHOLIC SCOUSER'S BARCA DREAM SHATTERED
-'I only wanted a chance,' claims 53 year old Lector, 'but Barca's Swedish manager rejected me.'"

[Lecter]

That's ****ing told you Lec

"ALCOHOLIC SCOUSER'S BARCA DREAM SHATTERED
-'I only wanted a chance,' claims 53 year old Lector, 'but Barca's Swedish manager rejected me.'"

As if Brian Clough telling me I wouldnt make it when I was 15 wasnt devastating enough

[Norbs]

Not convinced of that

Watch this, in the 2009/10 season all bar two of his goals are poachers goals, from within the 6yd box. He is so underrated as a goal scorer, his nerve under pressure is evident in his penalty taking but it also shows he has lightning reactions in front of goal. I'm absolutely convinced he would bag 25+ goals a season in a 4-2-3-1 with him being Mr 1. This is provided he's playing behind a trio who are prepared to have a shot at any opportunity - Maxi, Gerrard, Suarez, Downing, Carroll, Henderson & Bellamy all possess a wicked shot. Any of those three and a defensive duo in the middle allowing the full back to continue to press forward and we might see some of those chances being converted. One thing for sure is that at the moment too much is going through Suarez, the chances being created are not being finished by him as he's lacking some composure. He'd be better employed creating for others, IMO like

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPO48yW4B4w"]Kuyt's goals 2009/10[/ame]

Plus there's the hattrick against Utd. How many players have achieved that? All the goals from inside the 6yd box, doubt you'll find a messier trio but who is doing that this season? It's neither the job of Andy or Luis. Dirk's unplayable from 3yds

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ivifxKvLQY"]Watch from around 2 mins to see Utd hattrick[/ame]

Yes that's true, but if it's happening so often that the wingers end up doing more defending than the rampaging defenders then surely the best thing would be for them to swap poisitions, then the wingers would spend more time in their correct position as would the defenders.

Folk would start ripping Enrique apart for his lack of defensive skills then

[~LFCHistory~]

^^ Excellent post Norbert^^

The second half of last season we were having no problem scoring goals/converting chances. Suarez, Kuyt, Maxi and Meireles were our primary attacking players - we had some great results against Fulham[a], Birmingham[h] and many others. In short goals came easily.

But this season our conversion rate is awful, we have scored less goals than Norwich and Bolton. So what is the difference between last season and this ?? Has Suarez suddenly become impotent ? Or perhaps it is because our main attacking unit from last season in Suarez, Kuyt, Maxi and Meireles has been dismantled and replaced with inferior replacements in Carroll, Downing, Adam and Henderson ?