Our style of play

[dww]

I don't think we need 2 defensive midfielders, just players in the system who understand the extra tactical and defensive responsibility they have with such attacking full backs and ideas. For example, if Lucas had not picked up another injury, I firmly believe that a Lucas-Allen combo would be sufficient. Allen is not a defensive midfielder, but he understands the system as well as his responsibilities within it.

Given time, lots more players will get up to speed with it. The main reason I think the youth have looked so much more at ease (apart from the obvious fact that youngsters learn quicker) is because they had so much extra time in pre-season to work with the ideas. Effectively, the internationals are 6 to 8 weeks behind them in tactical work so we may well see that understanding coming in the next weeks.

I think that Lucas + two (including Allen) would be perfect but Lucas now has had a serious injury for a while. We need backup and Allen is not a specialist and it takes away from his natural game playing where he does. Xavi suffered playing a similar role for Barcelona earlier in his career and no one would ever suggest it for Iniesta.

A player at either end of the age spectrum who was a specialist but was willing to play second fiddle to Lucas when fit would be ideal. I still think if Kenny had addressed that issue last Jan he would be our manager. The failure to deal with this and the firepower issue he inherited are my main concerns with Rodgers.

[yamiedo]

I think that Lucas + two (including Allen) would be perfect but Lucas now has had a serious injury for a while. We need backup and Allen is not a specialist and it takes away from his natural game playing where he does. Xavi suffered playing a similar role for Barcelona earlier in his career and no one would ever suggest it for Iniesta.

A player at either end of the age spectrum who was a specialist but was willing to play second fiddle to Lucas when fit would be ideal. I still think if Kenny had addressed that issue last Jan he would be our manager. The failure to deal with this and the firepower issue he inherited are my main concerns with Rodgers.

Also with Europa league and cup competitions in the mix, playing second fiddle isn't so bad. The backup DM would be heavily involved in the early stages of these competitions and an injury is always a possibility. Look at Spurs, Sandro and Parker are their options I believe and they seem to both get quite a lot of game time.

[dww]

Also with Europa league and cup competitions in the mix, playing second fiddle isn't so bad. The backup DM would be heavily involved in the early stages of these competitions and an injury is always a possibility. Look at Spurs, Sandro and Parker are their options I believe and they seem to both get quite a lot of game time.

Aye.

I wonder whether Coady has been earmarked for a role given his reported first team call up.

[mattydalton]

I think that Lucas + two (including Allen) would be perfect ....

Yeah, I kinda meant that. I guess we will always have a more attacking member of the trio, but the main defensively tactical duties would be split between that pair.

[Mattshark]

One could also argue that poor analysis and usage of statistics is also highly subjective to the individual and unreliable.

This is also true, but at least that is allows others to assess it. You cannot do that with the bias and perceptual issues that come with observation.

[Neil Young]

I fundamentally disagree with taking a hard and fast line like that. There's a real danger of reductionism and a false notion of objectivity.

Different types of evidence stand or fall on their own terms. The danger with the overvaluing of statistics because they somehow can be discussed neutrally (yeah, right) is that only the quantifiable is valued. If you want to see the damage of that then look out the window or read the FT.

Or, to express it in terms of a quantitative relationship:

Truth > Fact

[Neil Young]

And anyway it's wrong to say you can't assess qualitative judgments for bias.

[yamiedo]

Aye.

I wonder whether Coady has been earmarked for a role given his reported first team call up.

Really? He was called up to the first team? I got the impression on here in general that Coady wasn't fulfilling potential. Have to admit whenever I've seen him I've never found him particularly stand out myself.

[Mattshark]

And anyway it's wrong to say you can't assess qualitative judgments for bias.

Sorry, I will change that too it is much more difficult to assess the bias involved.

I was talking about a hard and fast line either. I was simply pointing out that visual analysis alone is quite unreliable by nature that is all.

[yamiedo]

Actually maybe the fact Coady hasn't stood out is the sign of a good defensive midfielder. Doing all the mopping up that goes unnoticed. What is the general consensus on Coady these days?

[Neil Young]

Sorry, I will change that too it is much more difficult to assess the bias involved.

I was talking about a hard and fast line either. I was simply pointing out that visual analysis alone is quite unreliable by nature that is all.

I'm not entirely sure I agree but it's not really the time and place. All the same, at some point I'd really like a chat with you and the other scientists about these issues. Not to do with football - although it'd serve as an example maybe - but about broader issues. It's on my mind a lot these days.

[dww]

Actually maybe the fact Coady hasn't stood out is the sign of a good defensive midfielder. Doing all the mopping up that goes unnoticed. What is the general consensus on Coady these days?

I haven't heard anyone say anything good about him in the last two years. I think everyone was surprised by his call up. I think it is particularly hard to rate DMs, so perhaps you are right.

[DannyMan2006]

Coady is tidy on the ball and is a natural leader. Excellent temperament and I think he'll make it as a good player.

Is he good enough right now? I don't know. But we'll only know that when he is given a chance. Never seems to have a bad game at lower levels. He doesn't stand out, but then I don't watch full games.

[baitman]

brendan often comes out with a managerial motivational mega-quote, but if he feels he doesnt have the players he needs for his "system" to be fully operational [is it the ****ing death star ] then why does he so slavishly not adapt the style of play in order to get the best from the players he has.

we pass about, looking pretty, but there is very little danger in the opponents goal mouth. attacks get easily smothers by a back four overwhelming our main striker and maybe one other...
we are being outplayed by other teams. teams were we would have thought we should be getting all three points or beating to more into the next round of the cup.

i think we are looking far too lightweight in midfield with a middle three. when the full backs advance to support the attack we look devoid of bodies in defence. allen is controlling the middle of the pitch [around the centre circle, like a better scholes] but he cannot fill in for the advancing fullbacks . teams are passing through, around or over our players and finding we are struggling defensively.

i know this plan will take time, but surely not at the cost of us getting bent over and butt raped almost every game...

[Fredo]

brendan often comes out with a managerial motivational mega-quote, but if he feels he doesnt have the players he needs for his "system" to be fully operational [is it the ****ing death star ] then why does he so slavishly not adapt the style of play in order to get the best from the players he has.

we pass about, looking pretty, but there is very little danger in the opponents goal mouth. attacks get easily smothers by a back four overwhelming our main striker and maybe one other...
we are being outplayed by other teams. teams were we would have thought we should be getting all three points or beating to more into the next round of the cup.

i think we are looking far too lightweight in midfield with a middle three. when the full backs advance to support the attack we look devoid of bodies in defence. allen is controlling the middle of the pitch [around the centre circle, like a better scholes] but he cannot fill in for the advancing fullbacks . teams are passing through, around or over our players and finding we are struggling defensively.

i know this plan will take time, but surely not at the cost of us getting bent over and butt raped almost every game...

Think that's harsh. We create a lot IMO. Same story as last year in short, which hasn't been addressed this season.