Our style of play

[baitman]

a great reply, Kalesh

...Yes, the midfield has looked porous and lacks shape, but Brendan’s teams are based on three high-energy midfielders pressing the ball. Gerrard can’t do that any more and – with the exception of Lucas, Allen and Henderson – we don’t have players suited to that game (although I’m hoping Shelvey’s physicality will enable him to take on the role). We’ve looked at our best when we’ve had more players like this in our line-up and I think Enrique’s performances in the last three games has been an example of this.

Where we are more obviously lacking is the transition from attack to defence. We look weak when we lose the ball up field as we lack shape and leave holes at the back. The return of Lucas will improve this but, ultimately, it’ll be a high-defensive line – close to the midfield – coupled with midfield players that actually track opposition runners from deep that will solve this.

surely the midfield is crucial to controlling the game, and hopefully winning it. rafa always made this point.
if gerrard isnt the man to play in our midfield in brendans preferred style then he should get dropped, no? either play to your strengths and adapt the team to the players you have, or play suso/sahin instead of gerrard.

it does seem that brendan is caught between his philosophical ideals and wanting to play gerrard. is he being too stubborn for the teams good.
we know his "ideal" will take some time. are we happy to finish 8th for a couple of years, hoping we can then push on from there. indeed, will we push on... nothing is certain.

btw, im not being defeatist or over critical before the punishers steam in.
im just asking legitimate questions, trying to get some discussion and healthy debate going regarding what brendan seems to want, if we see how it might work, and other possible alternatives.

[Lecter]

I remember Rodgers mentioning that. The odd thing is that Gerrard has been played as the ‘second’ defensive midfielder alongside Allen. He doesn’t seem to have the legs for this role anymore and we’d be better playing him somewhere where he has to do less running, can conserve his energy and have more of an impact. I’d still like to see him tried in the front three and – if he is played in the midfield three – he needs to be at the apex. We need someone more disciplined in the two deep midfield roles. Until Lucas gets back, I’d go for Henderson or Sahin.

Gerrard should be as far forward as possible

Hes never been the best defensively

Benitez sussed that 8 years ago

I remember a few years back people suggesting that Gerrard would end up playing deeper and deeper as his legs went but Rafa said that in his mind he would go further forward rather than backwards and I think that is spot on

I'd put Henderson alongside Allen in a pairing and allow Gerrard licence to push on

Short term thats the way to go at least until Lucas gets back

[Tee]

I agree about pushing Gerrad further forward, and I would actually change from a 4-3-3 to 4-2-3-1. Sahin and Allen as the two holding, with Gerrard just off Suarez the way he was just behind Torres. Something like this:

---------------------------------------Reina

Johnson--------------Skrtel----------------------------Agger--------------Enrique


------------------------Allen-----------------------Sahin

----------Shelvey---------------------------------------------------Sterlin
-------------------------------------Gerrard

---------------------------------Suarez

[yamiedo]

I hope Rodgers starts putting Gerrard up front to be honest. That role is just made for him in my opinion. You have two overlapping inside forwards. Suarez and Sterling. Gerrard is a playmaker. He will drop deep, into the space he loves and be able to play these guys in as well as the fullbacks or even Shelvey/Suso playing the attacking midfield role.

[Boogs]

Gerrard knows that he is having a below par season. Surely he knows what his best position is and will have discussed this with the Manager as to how he is best at influencing games?

[el matador]

We might not be seeing quantitative improvement in comparison to Kenny’s or Hodgson’s teams, but I think it’s fair to say we’re seeing qualitative improvement (albeit stuttering). We all recognised that this season – and probably next – would be a season of transition, so it’s important to not lose sight of that whilst we find ourselves in the quagmire of a mid-season, mid-table struggle.

The difference between Brendan’s team – and Kenny’s and the Bodge’s before – is that you can detect the development of a distinct – and attractive – style of play. I’ve certainly enjoyed watching us more this year than I have for the last two seasons, even though the results have been similar. All this has been underpinned by a belief in young players, and that’s something that’s always guaranteed to excite fans.

You can see the signs of a good team developing, we just don’t have the players to implement it fully. The defence is getting tighter and we’ve cut out the mistakes that cost us goals at the start of the season. Yes, the midfield has looked porous and lacks shape, but Brendan’s teams are based on three high-energy midfielders pressing the ball. Gerrard can’t do that any more and – with the exception of Lucas, Allen and Henderson – we don’t have players suited to that game (although I’m hoping Shelvey’s physicality will enable him to take on the role). We’ve looked at our best when we’ve had more players like this in our line-up and I think Enrique’s performances in the last three games has been an example of this.

BR’s teams require a defensive high-line which helps compress play. At the start of the season, we were too fragmented and too deep, but this is improving. Rodgers also likes attacking full-backs that push up and cause the CBs to split. You need intelligent, mobile defenders that are good in one-on-one situations to make this work, and Agger and Skrtel are finally getting used to it. It’s also a fantastic way to get the most out of Johnson, one of our stand-out players and – with a solid RB like Wisdom who is equally comfortable at CB, it allows him to tuck in and make a more compact defence. Kelly would be equally suited to this role when he returns. It’s a change in system, so it’s bound to take time, but I think it’s working.

Where we are more obviously lacking is the transition from attack to defence. We look weak when we lose the ball up field as we lack shape and leave holes at the back. The return of Lucas will improve this but, ultimately, it’ll be a high-defensive line – close to the midfield – coupled with midfield players that actually track opposition runners from deep that will solve this.

The other problem is our inability to create lots of clear-cut chances – but I thought we created more against Swansea. We’ve looked most dangerous this year when we’ve had a high defensive line as it’s allowed the team to move forward as a unit.

So, in short, let’s not be too cynical. We need to remember that we’re in transition. Take a step-back and consider whether we’re improving. You might not agree, but I can certainly see what Rodgers is trying to do and, at the moment, I’m happy to go along with him.

we played some very good football under kenny so its a bit harsh to say brendans got us playing more attractively this season. imo until lucas got injured last season some of the football was sensational - better than anything we've seen on a consistent basis this season.

what rodgers has done is to bring more structure to our play. Under kenny we often saw a lot of players stood next to each other or in a line but under rodgers it is completely different. Players positions are always at a 45 degree angle to each other enabling two things. firstly the ability to cut through a midfield block and building the base for players to play in triangles.

the problem is not the defence as people seem to think but the way in which they are left exposed constantly. yes we made some individual mistakes but the midfield isnt balanced right. imo this will not change even with lucas in the side until rodgers switches to a 4231 from a 433.

Every time we lose the ball, you need to look at how many of our players are behind the play. its frightening how open that midfield area is.

I agree that the pressing is one of the biggest problems in the side. the only midfield players capable of pressing high up the pitch are henderson, allen and lucas. Gerrard wont and he wont track back either. So imo you either drop him completely or you have no choice than to play him off suarez. Which rodgers doesnt fancy either. Sigurdsson played that role for swansea but gerrard and sigurdsson arent similar at all. Infact sigurdsson is more similar to a lampard type player who keeps it simple and breaks into the box. Or the player most suited to that role in our team is shelvey.

Shelvey isnt ready to take on responsibility for defensive duties yet. hes talented but the kid is trying to play his own game.

The transition from attack to defense is awful because of those two midfield players being constantly behind the ball and not tracking back when required. Young boys second goal you can see both gerrard and shelvey about 40 yards behind the ball. Its a recurring theme.

at the moment imo our defence and our attack are doing different things on the pitch. the defence start very deep when we have the ball but the forwards are high up the pitch. this leaves a big gap in the middle but thats how the system works. however we're relying on allen or the central defenders to get that ball into the middle third. if they lose the ball, all of a sudden its 4v3 or something.

Glen johnson will love this role but defensively we will always be suspect because of the two advanced central midfield players and the two fullbacks pushed very high up the pitch.

The truth with this system is that we are only ever a simple pass away from being at panic stations. No one quite understands how important joe allen is to this way of playing because the emphasis will be on him to recover that ball high up the pitch so we can keep the opposition under pressure.

He's a specialist ball winner imo

[el matador]

I hope Rodgers starts putting Gerrard up front to be honest. That role is just made for him in my opinion. You have two overlapping inside forwards. Suarez and Sterling. Gerrard is a playmaker. He will drop deep, into the space he loves and be able to play these guys in as well as the fullbacks or even Shelvey/Suso playing the attacking midfield role.

i dont think he will because every time gerrard gets the ball he will look to make something happen which means he might end up giving the ball away and we're open to the counter.

im not sure which match it was where he gave the ball away 23 times in the final third trying those incisive passes.

[yamiedo]

i dont think he will because every time gerrard gets the ball he will look to make something happen which means he might end up giving the ball away and we're open to the counter.

im not sure which match it was where he gave the ball away 23 times in the final third trying those incisive passes.

All he has to do is play the ball into Suarez while he's just cut in from the wing on the edge of the box and watch him do the rest. Actually, not just that. If Suarez ain't on he has Sterling on the other side who is capable of a cross into Gerrard who could be on the end of something. Playing Gerrard in an advanced position is far more effective than in the middle. Rafa proved that.

[el matador]

I agree gerrard is best off suarez but rodgers wont play him there because he takes too many risks.

[souliv]

I agree gerrard is best off suarez but rodgers wont play him there because he takes too many risks.

If that is the case we will continue to see crap performances from Gerrard I hope Rogers moves him further forward as he is wasted in his current position and leaves our midfield in a mess

[el matador]

He doesnt want gerrard in that role but sees shelvey as that player.

[Phoenix07]

Even when Shelvey plays there, it is nowhere near as advanced as let's say Gerrard under Benitez or Shelvey in the game away to Aston Villa under Kenny Dalglish when he supported Suarez.

I just don't think we have the players for 4-3-3 yet. What I found strange was Rodgers talking about using 4-2-3-1 in his pre-match interview on Sky against Swansea. It doesn't appear that way at all. He can change the system and still use the same style of play until he brings in his kind of player.

I'd love to see Sahin and Allen in the holding two with Allen advancing, as well as having Gerrard in the attacking areas. Sahin is best in a deeper position with the ball alongside a ball winner in my opinion. Even if Allen isn't the best at ball-winning, he is pretty good at pressing.

[baitman]

reading through the the transfer speculation about the need for a striker, several lads mentioning the need for a defensive midfielder too...

there has been much chat in other threads about our vulnerability to counter attacks with our full backs being encouraged to push forward.

there is no doubt we need goals.
we need goals from our front men, but we also need better support from the midfield players and also for them to chip in with their fair share of goals too.
i feel that with a midfield three, and the full backs running the lines we are left a little open through the middle. we might need to have two holding players to counter this. this might help shore up our defence but it wont allow more midfielders to support the strikers.

we havent got a deadly striker and enough support for the fron lads, so without a messi or RvP is the 4-3-3 really going to bring us goals.

[Boogs]

reading through the the transfer speculation about the need for a stinker, several lads mentioning the need for a defensive midfielder too...

there has been much chat in other threads about our vulnerability to counter attacks with our full backs being encouraged to push forward.

there is no doubt we need goals.
we need goals from our front men, but we also need better support from the midfield players and also for them to chip in with their fair share of goals too.
i feel that with a midfield three, and the full backs running the lines we are left a little open through the middle. we might need to have two holding players to counter this. this might help shore up our defence but it wont allow more midfielders to support the strikers.

we havent got a deadly striker and enough support for the fron lads, so without a messi or RvP is the 4-3-3 really going to bring us goals.

We've had plenty of stinkers this year, I can only hope 2013 brings fewer of them

[baitman]

We've had plenty of stinkers this year, I can only hope 2013 brings fewer of them