Our style of play

[Doc_Piptorious]

the most frustrating thing yesterday was that for 15 mins we absolutley bossed it & it was a case of wen not if we score; then the players seemed to collectivaly say ah bollocks this is too easy & eased up.

Say what you want about them (& plenty do on here), but had Hendo or millie started yesterday there would have been no let up; thats what we lack IMO, Mo, VVD, TAA, Robbo, Fab, Ali are not leaders in that sense; they may be the senior players, but they are not relentless enough when it comes to motivating others.

Think more Milner than Henderson this season when it comes to that.

Henderson has captained us during many stinkers this season. Think it reaches a point that if the guy shouting at you is playing just as badly as you despite all his shouting, that a player has a bit of a **** it moment and plays to the level of the shouter.

Whereas Milner despite his age will put in a crunching tackle or get in someone's face so is sort of backing up his shouting at teammates. He is leading by example as well as giving orders. That also gets the crowd going.

It is worrying though how many of our back line and midfielders that we thought were all "mentality monsters" now seem to be nothing of the soprt when things get tough.

I have left out the front men there as for me that mentality gets built upon guys in the centre and at the back.


Alisson I do think has that mentality and attitude but his position on the pitch really limits his influence and it could certainly be said that he leads by example performance wise much more often than not.

It did stand out yesterday that the only defender that seemed to be geeing up the guys around him was Konate and he was the youngest defender on the pitch.

VVD moaned more than encouraged. TAA and Roberstson where the same, more moans than war cries.

We had nothing in the middle, not even a senior player attempting to lead by example (Bajcetic and Elliot I give a pass to as they are two teenagers and are the ones the senior players should be helping through tough games)

[Irishnev]

Nah - he’s been ok. Games when we play well he typically plays well. Still providing assists (though not as many). Just scrapes a pass mark.

A pass vs what though - all of these guys have set such high standards that I’d argue he's well down on his level. That just makes him a normal left back though

[Tribute]

Our style of play

Build up from the back is far too slow and ponderous. VVD and Trent definitely too casual of late. Midfield create zilch… nada… without Thiago’s vision or another forward thinker…

Front three have been half decent but this team shouldn’t be relying on Hendo and Milner to ‘up the pace’… the oldest players in the squad.

What’s more disturbing from yesterday was the visible ‘switch-off’ after we hadn’t scored in the first twenty mins… VVD just stopped for the goal and looked totally fed up. Bizarre to watch…

Naby and Ox should have been booted last summer, even in Jan to bring in at least one midfield reinforcement. Salah still seems immune to being hooked, despite being the least effective of the front three yesterday. Must be in his contract..: that’s all I can think it is.

Need to wake the **** up for the next three games as we could easily lose three in a row based on yesterday’s lacklustre showing…

There will be lots more twists and turns between now and the end of the season. We just need to have fewer than everyone around us. I’m not hopeful.

[Exiled_red]

I've been saying it for ages but we are a much better side when we place at pace, a decent tempo and moving the ball around quickly, the vast majority of our **** performances have been slow plodding games with no urgency. Saturday even when we were a goal down in the last 10 mins there was no urgency, and barely a shot fired, it's almost as if they are resigned to defeat well before that, what happened to the side that never gave up?

I know that playing a high tempo game is energy sapping but we've only had 3 midweek games in 2023, we've been playing 1 game a week for most of the time, we should also have enough players in most positions to give at least some guys a rest if they need it

[Doc_Piptorious]

I've been saying it for ages but we are a much better side when we place at pace, a decent tempo and moving the ball around quickly, the vast majority of our **** performances have been slow plodding games with no urgency. Saturday even when we were a goal down in the last 10 mins there was no urgency, and barely a shot fired, it's almost as if they are resigned to defeat well before that, what happened to the side that never gave up?

I know that playing a high tempo game is energy sapping but we've only had 3 midweek games in 2023, we've been playing 1 game a week for most of the time, we should also have enough players in most positions to give at least some guys a rest if they need it

What is damning imo is what TAA said in his interview after the game

"They probably wanted it more"

Some might see it as a throwaway comment to explain/excuse another loss, but for me it highlights the erosion of our keeping fighting to the end mentality.

If we lose to a team that plays better on the day then fair enough, but we should never be coming out and saying another team wanted it more. We should always be matching the other team for effort and that "wanting the win" factor.

And I do not think it is just TAA who is badly lacking this season in that wanting to win department, and being willing to match the other team in sweat. He is just the first senior player that I have noticed coming out and saying it in an interview post game.

[wiw]

What is damning imo is what TAA said in his interview after the game

"They probably wanted it more"

Some might see it as a throwaway comment to explain/excuse another loss, but for me it highlights the erosion of our keeping fighting to the end mentality.

If we lose to a team that plays better on the day then fair enough, but we should never be coming out and saying another team wanted it more. We should always be matching the other team for effort and that "wanting the win" factor.

And I do not think it is just TAA who is badly lacking this season in that wanting to win department, and being willing to match the other team in sweat. He is just the first senior player that I have noticed coming out and saying it in an interview post game.

Think maybe this group have just had too many collective disappointments at this point? To absolutely work your bollocks off and lose 2 x CL finals and 2 leagues by a point...that has to take its toll

[Buzzo]

Think maybe this group have just had too many collective disappointments at this point? To absolutely work your bollocks off and lose 2 x CL finals and 2 leagues by a point...that has to take its toll

Yup. Particularly the two league titles. 76 games to twice lose the League by a point. Twice posting insane points totals to have nothing to show for it.

They are human. That has to have been psychologically crushing, on the coaching unit as well as the players. Not to mention the fans.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Yup. Particularly the two league titles. 76 games to twice lose the League by a point. Twice posting insane points totals to have nothing to show for it.

They are human. That has to have been psychologically crushing, on the coaching unit as well as the players. Not to mention the fans.

Don't quite buy into that at all.

Sure you could argue that point in the aftermath of just missing out. Pushing towards 12 months later is a bit of a stretch and if they are all still suffering from that still it asks questions about the mentality and ablility to motivated and be motivated from Klopp right down through the first team squad.

What we are failing to do is match supposedly weaker teams at doing the bare minimums. If our players are now saying that is their level then they need to find clubs that match that level of effort and ambition.

We need, and this is obvious to every one of us on here and we have all said it, that fresh injection of attitude, ability and energy that comes with the arrival of a number of quality new players. Unfortunately that cannot happen until the summer so it is on the current players to be going out each game and showing that they are able to match other teams in terms of workrate and attitude.

That is the bare minimum any amatuer player of any sport is expected to give, men and women who have to keep down day jobs and what not. Our guys are professional players whose day job is the sport and who need to not constantly be getting out worked by weaker teams.

Forest, Bournemouth, Wolves Leeds and so on. Losses to those sport of teams should be outliers and not the norm.

Same to a lesser degree for losses against the likes of Brighton and Brentford.

If players want to come out and say things like team X wanted it more and want to hide behind that, then they can go play for teams of that ilk and we can bring in players that want to show they belong at a top tier club and that 7 or 8 games out of ten they can match or beat the attitude and workrate of the guys on the other team. Now matching/beating the workrate still does not mean a win is nailed on, but a loss during which you gave your all is a less bitter pill than one where you know deep down that you earned the loss through not giving your all rather than through simply not being the better team on the day.


Is a cliche with some truth in it, but winners win because they see themselves as winners and they view losses as something that should not happen and as such strive to make those losses a rarity.

Our guys just seem to give a collective shrug and go "meh" after each setback.


Roll on Klopp's next rebuild, because I have little doubt he is already planning it and knows who he wants to come in to be his next batch of winners.

[wiw]

Are these not the same players who were the mentality monsters? If they're now going "meh" then doesn't that prove Buzzo's point?

Just to add - i'm not digging you out there. It just seems as though our main strength a couple of years ago has become a weakness...other than a perfectly natural human reaction to disappointment, what is causing it do you reckon?

[Kenneth]

Yeah, I’m not so comfortable with the explanation that our squad is a bunch of unprofessional fannies.

[Mark79]

Think maybe this group have just had too many collective disappointments at this point? To absolutely work your bollocks off and lose 2 x CL finals and 2 leagues by a point...that has to take its toll

Yup. Particularly the two league titles. 76 games to twice lose the League by a point. Twice posting insane points totals to have nothing to show for it.

They are human. That has to have been psychologically crushing, on the coaching unit as well as the players. Not to mention the fans.

I think it’s natural that it’d take some sort of toll. Possibly subconsciously. Even if only by a few percent.

To keep putting absolutely everything in without fail, week in week out and not have the outcome match your efforts. It must be hard enough to maintain that level even when it does pay off.

[Buzzo]

I think it’s natural that it’d take some sort of toll. Possibly subconsciously. Even if only by a few percent.

To keep putting absolutely everything in without fail, week in week out and not have the outcome match your efforts. It must be hard enough to maintain that level even when it does pay off.

I’m not saying they’ve chucked it. But even a slight drop off, a few % here and there is going to have an affect. Almost scaling Everest twice.

[red g]

Are these not the same players who were the mentality monsters? If they're now going "meh" then doesn't that prove Buzzo's point?

Just to add - i'm not digging you out there. It just seems as though our main strength a couple of years ago has become a weakness...other than a perfectly natural human reaction to disappointment, what is causing it do you reckon?

Everyone to a man, ran the hardest and worked the hardest......It now seems none of them do it.

Their work ethic and will to win was 2nd to none. It would appear that we were great together and now they are **** together. Team work

[baitman]

It doesn't matter what heights the players have reached as a team or individuals, if they are no longer able to keep on performing at the heighestate level then they need moving on.
No time for sentiment, it's all about the now.
Other than the odd good moments in a game I can't see the likes of taa, henderson, etc ever discovering their old consistency.

They wanted it more... may as well ask to be sold!

[BobTheCharmer]

It doesn't matter what heights the players have reached as a team or individuals, if they are no longer able to keep on performing at the heighestate level then they need moving on.
No time for sentiment, it's all about the now.
Other than the odd good moments in a game I can't see the likes of taa, henderson, etc ever discovering their old consistency.

They wanted it more... may as well ask to be sold!

Couldn't agree more. But then I hear klopp was surprised Bobby wanting out. He shouldn't have been surprised ffs, he should have been insisting on it. Will Bobby ever be as good as 4 years ago? No. Move him on. Same for Virgil. The guy is stealing a living. Klopp needs to be ruthless or might as well go himself.