Our style of play

[danperkins]

He's spot on

[Doc_Piptorious]

He's spot on

But he is not really.

He is just going for a lazy answer, the sort of drivel that one would hear drooling out of the mouths of the likes of Carragher and Neville.

He is ignoring how often many players played, injuries, utter loss of form and so on and just going for the low hanging fruit option of midfield midfield midfield.

The entire fan base knows we need to refresh the midfield, we were pretty much united on the need to do so last season too when the midfield got more goals and assists and we chased four trophies. Did not hear Fowler's wisdom back then, same with dopes like Carragher.

We need a hell of a lot more than just goals at present. We need to get back to being a well oiled machine with attack, midfield and defence working as one unit. Unfortunately we are stuck with the disjointed version of us until at least the summer but one can hope that we then bring in a number of midfielders that then help knit the three units back together into being a team and if they bring some extra goals and assists with them, then great.

Some extra goals from midfield would be nice, but a midfield that can press, that can resist presses, that can link play, that can feed the attack and help protect the back line is far far more important than Fowler's simplistic "midfield needs more goals cuz other midfields get goals"


Comparing us to Man City is a red herring. They have always, prior to getting Haaland, relied on spreading their goals around their midfield and back line rather than have a number of high scorers up front like what we had.

He also neglected to mention that whilst we have the fifth best defence in the league, we also have the fifth highest amount of goals scored.

We have outscored Man U, Newcastle, and Villa. All teams ahead of us in the table and we are only 7 goals and 4 goals behind Spurs and Brighton.

The only two teams outscoring us easily this season are City and Arsenal, the title chasers.


Look at all the teams that are being lauded as doing really well this season.

Brighton, Villa, Brentford, Spurs, Man U, Spurs and Newcastle.

Their doing well is basically within touching distance of us having an utter crap season.


And we are having a really poor season, but by our standards. Very fine margins at play for us. A couple of those really stupid draws we had, if we had not cocked up, suddenly we are in fifth only points behind foiurth with a game or two in hand on those around us. In fact we still have a game or two in hand over most of the teams between us and fourth place.


Crap season? Yes.

Poor performances all over the place? Yes

A number of senior players, and not just the older ones, need to be evaluated next season? Yes.

However despite all the doom and gloom that has come with this season we are still a team that with an injection of fresh blood could abruptly half the amount of losses and draws we have seen this season.

We are still a team lead by Jurgen Klopp, a man who no doubt has been stung by this season and will want to show that his teams bounce back hard every time they have an off season.

If the likes of Fowler, Neville, Carragher and other tv talking heads want to tell us what is what when it comes to footy, then maybe they should go out there and be successful managers if they want their opinions to carry weight. Until they do that, well what they say if worth little more than what all of us come up with here on forums.

And for what it is worth I do think, if we bring in two or three midfielders, that we will get more goals from the midfield next season. Not because a deep thinker like Fowler made Klopp think of that concept, but simply because more mobile more aggressive players get forward more just as we have seen in seasons past.

[Exiled_red]

I don't think goals from the midfield is the primary issue, this Klopp team has never scored alot of goals from midfield, ~70% of our goals come from the forwards. I think if the team is playing well and with confidence the midfield will chip in with goals naturally. The assists are more of a concern to me. Although I don't like assists as a metric of a player's performance as you can lay some chances on a plate and if the player on the end doesn't finish that isn't a reflection on you or the chance you created. That said the midfield really isn't doing enough in most aspects of the game and that is having an impact on other players. e.g. if they were covering better defensively the fullbacks might have had more assists/goals, forwards might have felt that they could have stayed a few yards further forward or not had to worry so much about their defending etc. But players though out the team are off form

Whether it's a hardworking or creative midfield doesn't matter at the moment, we just need it to function as a part of a good team.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I don't think goals from the midfield is the primary issue, this Klopp team has never scored alot of goals from midfield, ~70% of our goals come from the forwards. I think if the team is playing well and with confidence the midfield will chip in with goals naturally. The assists are more of a concern to me. Although I don't like assists as a metric of a player's performance as you can lay some chances on a plate and if the player on the end doesn't finish that isn't a reflection on you or the chance you created. That said the midfield really isn't doing enough in most aspects of the game and that is having an impact on other players. e.g. if they were covering better defensively the fullbacks might have had more assists/goals, forwards might have felt that they could have stayed a few yards further forward or not had to worry so much about their defending etc. But players though out the team are off form

Whether it's a hardworking or creative midfield doesn't matter at the moment, we just need it to function as a part of a good team.

[Paul12]

But he is not really.

He is just going for a lazy answer, the sort of drivel that one would hear drooling out of the mouths of the likes of Carragher and Neville.

He is ignoring how often many players played, injuries, utter loss of form and so on and just going for the low hanging fruit option of midfield midfield midfield.

The entire fan base knows we need to refresh the midfield, we were pretty much united on the need to do so last season too when the midfield got more goals and assists and we chased four trophies. Did not hear Fowler's wisdom back then, same with dopes like Carragher.

We need a hell of a lot more than just goals at present. We need to get back to being a well oiled machine with attack, midfield and defence working as one unit. Unfortunately we are stuck with the disjointed version of us until at least the summer but one can hope that we then bring in a number of midfielders that then help knit the three units back together into being a team and if they bring some extra goals and assists with them, then great.

Some extra goals from midfield would be nice, but a midfield that can press, that can resist presses, that can link play, that can feed the attack and help protect the back line is far far more important than Fowler's simplistic "midfield needs more goals cuz other midfields get goals"


Comparing us to Man City is a red herring. They have always, prior to getting Haaland, relied on spreading their goals around their midfield and back line rather than have a number of high scorers up front like what we had.

He also neglected to mention that whilst we have the fifth best defence in the league, we also have the fifth highest amount of goals scored.

We have outscored Man U, Newcastle, and Villa. All teams ahead of us in the table and we are only 7 goals and 4 goals behind Spurs and Brighton.

The only two teams outscoring us easily this season are City and Arsenal, the title chasers.


Look at all the teams that are being lauded as doing really well this season.

Brighton, Villa, Brentford, Spurs, Man U, Spurs and Newcastle.

Their doing well is basically within touching distance of us having an utter crap season.


And we are having a really poor season, but by our standards. Very fine margins at play for us. A couple of those really stupid draws we had, if we had not cocked up, suddenly we are in fifth only points behind foiurth with a game or two in hand on those around us. In fact we still have a game or two in hand over most of the teams between us and fourth place.


Crap season? Yes.

Poor performances all over the place? Yes

A number of senior players, and not just the older ones, need to be evaluated next season? Yes.

However despite all the doom and gloom that has come with this season we are still a team that with an injection of fresh blood could abruptly half the amount of losses and draws we have seen this season.

We are still a team lead by Jurgen Klopp, a man who no doubt has been stung by this season and will want to show that his teams bounce back hard every time they have an off season.

If the likes of Fowler, Neville, Carragher and other tv talking heads want to tell us what is what when it comes to footy, then maybe they should go out there and be successful managers if they want their opinions to carry weight. Until they do that, well what they say if worth little more than what all of us come up with here on forums.

And for what it is worth I do think, if we bring in two or three midfielders, that we will get more goals from the midfield next season. Not because a deep thinker like Fowler made Klopp think of that concept, but simply because more mobile more aggressive players get forward more just as we have seen in seasons past.

I agree with all of that Jaco, but on your last para I have always thought our midfield - even at its prime - was not so much about scoring goals or creative passing that opens up defences as about winning the ball back and getting it to the forwards to do their magic...and I think Klopp's LFC Version 2.0 needs a slightly different midfield. A midfield that is sufficiently threatening/creative outside the box that defences are drawn towards it.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I agree with all of that Jaco, but on your last para I have always thought our midfield - even at its prime - was not so much about scoring goals or creative passing that opens up defences as about winning the ball back and getting it to the forwards to do their magic...and I think Klopp's LFC Version 2.0 needs a slightly different midfield. A midfield that is sufficiently threatening/creative outside the box that defences are drawn towards it.

No disagreement from me on that

[red g]

I agree with all of that Jaco, but on your last para I have always thought our midfield - even at its prime - was not so much about scoring goals or creative passing that opens up defences as about winning the ball back and getting it to the forwards to do their magic...and I think Klopp's LFC Version 2.0 needs a slightly different midfield. A midfield that is sufficiently threatening/creative outside the box that defences are drawn towards it.

would be more worried about the number of goal and assidt Robbo and TTA produced when we were decent to the ****e that is producrd now

[Charly]

I thnik we will have to be smart about how we spend the money we have, as we are not going to have much more than 100m imho... even less should we finish outside of Europe.

Our midfield was used to win the ball back. All of our goals came from the high press and crosses from the fullbacks, and we were the best in the world at both.

Our midfield collectively managed around 20-30 goals and assists each season (excluding this). We average around 80 goals, and so 160 goals and assists. So its not a huge proportion, but every little helps. Gone are they days when Milner and Henderson could chip in 15 between them.

This season Hendo, Milner and Ox have one apiece, and Elliott has three. Thiago, Fabinho and Keita have zero. So Elliott is outperforming everyone else put together.

[Exiled_red]

I thnik we will have to be smart about how we spend the money we have, as we are not going to have much more than 100m imho... even less should we finish outside of Europe.

Our midfield was used to win the ball back. All of our goals came from the high press and crosses from the fullbacks, and we were the best in the world at both.

Our midfield collectively managed around 20-30 goals and assists each season (excluding this). We average around 80 goals, and so 160 goals and assists. So its not a huge proportion, but every little helps. Gone are they days when Milner and Henderson could chip in 15 between them.

This season Hendo, Milner and Ox have one apiece, and Elliott has three. Thiago, Fabinho and Keita have zero. So Elliott is outperforming everyone else put together.

I think that figure is wildly optimistic Henderson used to get more when he played the more attacking role pre-Klopp, but since then he averages about 2 a season in all competitions now (his best goal scoring season for us saw him get 7). Milner's best goalscoring season for us also saw him get 7 but most of those were pens. He might have averaged about 3 a season without pens when he was playing most games but that obviously isn't the case anymore.

Also in terms of league goals we're lucky to get 20 never mind 30, last year we had 14 PL goals from midfield, the year before we had 6, the year we won the title and the year we won the CL we had about 20.

[Charly]

Those numbers are goals and assists

[Exiled_red]

Those numbers are goals and assists

Sorry I misunderstood that

[Buzzo]

Dunno if this has been posted.

[ame]https://twitter.com/ebl2017/status/1648312725775302656[/ame]

[Kenneth]

Sorry mate, I don't know either.

[Buzzo]

Sorry mate, I don't know either.

Anyone else know?

[Doc_Piptorious]

Dunno if this has been posted.

https://twitter.com/ebl2017/status/1648312725775302656

He starts off talking like TAA and the team are on a long run of good form since the positional changes rather than it just being one game in which we scored six goals.


The later on in his thread he says it should work as long as we bring in a new DM, new number 8, new inverted full back and a new left footed CB to cover gaps made by the new set up

So basically the sort of players we have been all looking for regardless of formation change.


Gallagher is the "dynamic" number 8 he thinks we need.