Our style of play

[Irishnev]

3-4-3 against City

------Gomez - Matip- VVD

Hendo--Fabinho--Thiago--Tsimikas

-----Salah--Darwin--Jota

If we go to three at the back then Jurgen should pack it in - it would mean he’s going against every managerial instinct he’s ever had. That’s what Rodgers does when he’s ****ed

I still think 4-3-3 is our best formation and suits the players we have the best. Our issue is we don’t have the legs in midfield to make it work. The right side didn’t just become an issue this year, that weakness always existed but we controlled the space via our pressing that teams couldn’t exploit it.

This idea that we’ve been figured out also doesn’t cut it - the issue is the same. Our players can no longer perform the roles to the intensity needed - either by choice or physical limitations. Our recruitment is lauded for identifying players before they explode - **** spending all the money in Bellingham, I want the three lads who will become Bellingham each for a third of the price.

[S-RED]

I hate to say it, but i miss a midfield of Gini, Fab & Hendo; at their peak the pressing from them & the front three was astonisihng & allowed Robbo & TAA to maraud forward

Not refreshing the midfield has ****ed us & thats on FSG ($$), Edwards & Jurgen; the money needed to be stumped up, but also Edwards/Jurgens mantra of no 2nd best option, when the dollar is not there is now being highlighted. It workwed with VVD, but he was an exception, not the rule

There are plenty of 2nd bests (£20-30Mill) in the prem now that we missed out on.

[kev776]

If we go to three at the back then Jurgen should pack it in - it would mean he’s going against every managerial instinct he’s ever had. That’s what Rodgers does when he’s ****ed

I still think 4-3-3 is our best formation and suits the players we have the best. Our issue is we don’t have the legs in midfield to make it work. The right side didn’t just become an issue this year, that weakness always existed but we controlled the space via our pressing that teams couldn’t exploit it.

This idea that we’ve been figured out also doesn’t cut it - the issue is the same. Our players can no longer perform the roles to the intensity needed - either by choice or physical limitations. Our recruitment is lauded for identifying players before they explode - **** spending all the money in Bellingham, I want the three lads who will become Bellingham each for a third of the price.

This is exactly why I chose this team and when added to the injury list, it's the only option.

1. Both first choice fullbacks are out.

2. Gomez over Konate because he is quicker, more experienced and has played fullback so understands the role.

3. City attack in droves, we have to stop them overrunning midfield, we need 4 there.

4. Milner is not the answer to any question here.

5. Jota and Salah are fit ****ers and can press their fullbacks back, we need fitness and workrate next week. I can't see anybody else making the team apart from Bobby at 60 mins to weave some magic.

[Charly]

I hate to say it, but i miss a midfield of Gini, Fab & Hendo; at their peak the pressing from them & the front three was astonisihng & allowed Robbo & TAA to maraud forward

Not refreshing the midfield has ****ed us & thats on FSG ($$), Edwards & Jurgen; the money needed to be stumped up, but also Edwards/Jurgens mantra of no 2nd best option, when the dollar is not there is now being highlighted. It workwed with VVD, but he was an exception, not the rule

There are plenty of 2nd bests (£20-30Mill) in the prem now that we missed out on.

Thta was my point exactly. Gini Hendo and Fab on paper are boring ****s who were never going to be associated with winning leagues and champions leagues, but they are exactly what the system required. You dont need to spend 50m on premium replacements for each one

[frank the tank]

I think Wjinaldum was brilliant for jurgen but he was moved on at the right time in his career..... If we had him now as well, then he'd be another Henderson who is on too high a wage who we'd be unable to move on.

I think the team are ****in knackered. Totally. For me there is no other explanation for about half a dozen of them falling off a cliff.

The league is a pain in the hole and 4th now has to be our aim. You could see it with other teams like arsenal and united in recent years that when you have a string of **** results like we have so far this season, every game becomes harder and harder because the pressure is on.

Hopefully we find some form soon and you never know in the CL after xmas. Bit i think soon the season could be one of developing the likes of konate, carvalho and Elliott further.

So frustrating but hopefully we come out the other side stronger

[Fierce]

3-4-3 against City

------Gomez - Matip- VVD

Hendo--Fabinho--Thiago--Tsimikas

-----Salah--Darwin--Jota

No chance. Though it'll be those players

Can't wait

[frank the tank]

I wonder when robbo comes back, would jurgen be tempted to play tsimikas left wing for a few weeks...... To get the defensive mojo back again

[wiw]

I like where we're going at the moment with this hybrid 4-4-2 type shape. Players like Elliott/Carvalho/Diaz are maybe a bit more suited to it rather than the traditional wide forward or number 8 thing we're used to. It also gives Darwin someone to play off, and we also seem happier to drop 10/15 yards and give Darwin some space to run into.

Just need to bin off Arthur/Ox/Keita and get a couple of others in - a top class 8 and a 10/second striker

[little dave hedgehog]

sometimes it's like an asymmetrical 4-3-3

--LF----CF----CF (SS)

-------LCM---RCM------RM

[Buzzo]

Interesting. Short version? We need midfielders.

Why Liverpool’s new identity means a little less intensity
James Pearce
Oct 26, 2022

When Jurgen Klopp and Pep Lijnders sat down together in the aftermath of Liverpool’s chaotic 3-3 draw with Brighton at the start of October, they were in agreement that a major change was required.

Liverpool had conceded eight goals in their previous three games. They had taken just 10 points out of a possible 21 domestically and had been thrashed 4-1 away to Napoli in the Champions League.

A team who had threatened to pull off an unprecedented quadruple last season had become a soft touch. Injuries had taken their toll and confidence levels had taken a battering.

Manager and assistant concluded that the time had come to move away from the tried and trusted 4-3-3 system that had previously served Liverpool so well during Klopp’s reign.

They believed the switch to 4-4-2 would help, at least in the short-term, to make Liverpool more compact and less easy to play through. The goal was to get back to basics and restore some much-needed calm during a hectic schedule when time on the training field would be limited.

“We wanted to defend differently to what we usually do,” explained Klopp after a routine 2-0 victory over Rangers at Anfield using the new setup. He talked about how they had successfully “closed different gaps” when not in possession.

The double pivot of Jordan Henderson and Thiago in midfield provided added protection for the back four that night, while it was noticeable that Trent Alexander-Arnold was given less of a licence to roam. As a result, there wasn’t as much space down that flank to exploit when moves broke down — something opponents had previously targeted.

The system also enabled Klopp to start the attacking quartet of Luis Diaz, Diogo Jota, Darwin Nunez and Mohamed Salah. Suddenly, opponents had something different to worry about.

After leading Real Madrid to Champions League glory in Paris in May, Carlo Ancelotti described Liverpool as “easier to decipher” than the other teams they had beaten en route to the final.

“They have a very clear identity and we could prepare the way we did,” Ancelotti said. “We knew what strategy to take — don’t give them space behind the defence to run into.” His defenders had been instructed to go long in order to negate Liverpool’s high press.

Had Liverpool become too predictable? Was the dismal start to this season simply proof that opponents had worked them out?

“Teams worked out how you can play against us when we are not at our best,” insisted Klopp. “Other teams have worked out how to play against us for years, but it still didn’t work out for them because we were exceptional in the moment in the things we did. In the moment when you are not exceptional, then it looks like, ‘Ah, now they realise’.

“There’s no system in the world with no weakness. It’s all about how we perform. It’s about what we did and with which intensity we did it and these kinds of things.”

Klopp has a point. Knowing how to stop Liverpool and being able to do so are two very different things. Even Ancelotti and his star-studded line-up had to rely on the brilliance of goalkeeper Thibaut Courtois in Paris.

The biggest issue for Klopp in the opening months of this season was that his team’s trademark intensity just wasn’t there. Energy levels dropped, a finely tuned system malfunctioned and Liverpool suddenly looked much more vulnerable.

“For the way we defend, you need to be brave,” Klopp said. “You have to commit to a common plan and that only works if everybody feels the same, and that might have been a little bit of the problem. We were not all in the same place in that moment or all in the same confidence levels for doing these kinds of things because we all had different solutions for the same problem.”

Klopp dismissed talk of a hangover from last season, but you can’t ignore both the mental and physical effects of a 63-game campaign that ended in such heartache, especially when it was followed by a shortened pre-season.

A succession of injuries sapped morale and conceding the first goal in five of their opening seven league games was the kind of worrying trend that further erodes belief. Klopp compared confidence levels to “a little flower that had been stamped on” shortly before the change of formation.

Interestingly, the manager also talked about the need to freshen things up tactically in order to focus minds. “We played for quite a time a specific system in a specific way. And when you get used to things you lose a little bit of the desire for the detail. That’s why we had to change a big thing and start thinking new about it as a group,” he said.

Has it worked? Since the switch to 4-4-2, Liverpool have played six games in all competitions, winning four and losing two.

Domestically, a narrow defeat at the Emirates when big decisions went against them was followed by a morale-boosting triumph over champions Manchester City and a hard-fought win over West Ham. Talk of turning the corner was then silenced by last weekend’s miserable defeat to lowly Nottingham Forest.

Over the course of October, Liverpool have been less relentless in pressing from the front, better able to cover space across the width of the pitch and more reliant on counter-attacks.

Six games is a small sample and you can’t overlook the fact that two of them were against a Rangers team with glaring problems of their own. However, there have been some interesting changes.

The number of passes allowed per defensive action (a metric that can quantify the extent and aggression of high presses) has according to statistics from StatsBomb via FBref gone up from 9.8 to 15.1 per game since playing 4-4-2. By not going looking for those high regains, there’s been less chance of Liverpool getting caught in behind.

Liverpool’s direct attacks (a proxy of counter-attacking play) has gone from 2.9 to 4.8 per game, although that figure is skewed by how heavily Klopp relied on that approach against Manchester City. Direct attacks conceded per game has dropped from 3.2 to 2.7.

“It’s actually not a big difference. It’s a change of responsibility slightly and it gave us more stability in different moments,” Klopp said about the benefits of the new system.

“Will we always play like this? It all depends who is fit. When we started the 4-4-2, we had two more strikers available. It’s about what is best for us and what is the worst for the opponent. That’s what we always did and will do.”

“No playmaker in the world can be as good as a good counter-pressing situation,” Klopp once said, and his use of an aggressive press has defined his managerial career. “Our identity is our intensity,” as Klopp’s assistant Pep Lijnders put it.

It is therefore worth exploring the reasons why they have seemingly reduced their pressing and diluted that trademark intensity a touch.

While a change in formation to a more stable, less basketball-like approach appears to be behind the change, Liverpool’s pressing intensity overall has been on a downward trend since last season, which was an issue for a team whose success was largely derived from a high volume of turnovers in possession in the opposition half. These turnovers have not just helped Liverpool in attack but in stifling their opponents’ time on the ball, too.

As the chart below of rolling 10-game averages for possessions won in the attacking third shows, there has been a decrease in how many occasions Liverpool have done so.

More pressure has then been placed on the defence because Liverpool aren’t squeezing the game as much to suffocate teams high up the pitch. As a result, if those teams play through the press, gaps open up elsewhere and the high line is one Liverpool tactic that has been exposed.

Last season, pressures in the middle third and attacking third were higher than they currently are this season. In 2021-22, Liverpool pressured the ball 62 times on average in the middle third of the pitch. That number has dropped to 53.2 this season. As for pressures in the final third, Liverpool have recorded 35.7 on average per 90 minutes, which has also lowered from the 44.8 average they notched last term.
If we look at how this current campaign compares with the 2020-21 season — when Liverpool struggled with an onslaught of injuries to key players such as Virgil van Dijk — it points perhaps to a similar issue they are again encountering this term. Which, among other mitigating factors, could be down to a lack of the same finely tuned personnel to suit the demands of the system.

Van Dijk is insistent that Liverpool still retain an intensity in their play, even if it is not as clear in their press as in previous seasons. “With the way we play, we obviously have a start system but you need to have intensity in order to make it work, regardless of what formation you play,” he said yesterday. “I don’t think it has changed much in my position. I don’t think we’ve started dropping off as much as has been spoken about. If you speak about the game against Man City, where you know they are going to have a lot of the ball, you have to be aware of the players they have. You have to defend differently from game to game. The formation is always just the starting position and then it’s about intensity and making sure you win your own battles.”

The statistical drop off in the press and counter press is real though and part of that, as The Athletic has reported and will explain further in this article, is due to injuries, but one key player missing from Liverpool’s team, and indeed press, is Sadio Mane, who left to join Bayern Munich during the summer.

Perhaps now we are starting to see the knock-on effects of Mane’s absence, particularly in the work he did for Liverpool off the ball.

While statistics from StatsBomb via FBref show the frequency of Mane’s pressing was less regular, he had more turnovers inside five seconds from his pressures, in essence showing that he knew when to pick his moments.

Mane was one of the leaders of the press from the front. Without him, Liverpool’s ability to control teams has waned.

One of the best examples of his work came in the FA Cup semi-final against Manchester City at Wembley. Mane was the best player on the pitch and scored his first goal in the 17th minute by pressing goalkeeper Zack Steffen into a mistake.

The Senegal international lurched after John Stones’ backpass, which he had pressured him into making.

It was a moment of intense pressure from Mane and Liverpool which City could not play their way out of. Impressively so, the pressing from Mane and his team-mates began well over a minute before he scored.

Here, he’s getting in front of Fernandinho to block off any potential pass into the midfielder from Nathan Ake, which eventually results in Liverpool forcing City to play backwards, with Mane key to the press and harrying Stones repeatedly in moves that foreshadow the eventual goal.

When it goes back, he sprints after it and is supported again by Diaz and Salah.

After some passes around the back, Mane begins the press similar to the one that later results in a goal.

Earlier in the 2021-22 season, Mane had scored a similar goal to the one he scored at Wembley, in a 2-2 draw with Brighton in the Premier League. The goal, which was scored by pressing the goalkeeper, was eventually ruled out, but this had not stopped Klopp from making a big claim about it.

“Sadio’s second goal was my favourite goal in six years at Liverpool because of how we put them under pressure, it was insane,” the manager said of a goal so clearly and perfectly executed in his heavy metal vision.

Pressing was fundamental to how Liverpool played and the domino effect of fewer regains of possession upfield is that Liverpool get less attacks in dangerous spots. And on the flipside, opponents get more. This has been a factor which has contributed to their difficulties in controlling games this season.

One player who has been essential to Liverpool’s press is Fabinho. The midfielder has appeared short of his best form this season and it is interesting that his interceptions per 90 minutes have more than halved, from 2.18 last season to 1.07 this season.

Fabinho led midfield team-mates such as Thiago (2.06) and Jordan Henderson (1.49) in interceptions last season so the slump is significant, suggesting a player struggling with his own game, the creaking system, or both.

The ability for teams to find and play through gaps has put additional pressure on Liverpool’s trademark high line, which has been exposed by several teams already this season. This is an echo of the 2020-21 season of toil.

It is nothing new to see Alisson, arguably Liverpool’s best player this season, being called upon in one-v-ones. More often than not, due to his dominance in these situations, he has bailed Liverpool out. Last season, in these scenarios he prevented Liverpool from conceding nine goals in the Premier League. That comes according to John Harrison, the head data scientist at goalkeeper.com.

It was these prevented goals which in part allowed Liverpool to fight it out for the title rather than be in a battle for the top four — which now looks to be the case.

“Only Leeds, Norwich, Watford, Everton, Wolves and Newcastle let their goalkeepers face more one-v-ones last season than Liverpool,” Harrison told The Athletic in August. “So while their style does suppress the amount of action their goalkeeper is called into, it does force them to do the majority of their work during one-vs-one situations. Liverpool are unique in this regard — more than half of the situations Liverpool’s goalkeepers had to attempt to save last year were one-on-ones.”

Whatever the formation, you’ve got to have the personnel to make it work and the loss of Jota and Diaz to injury has made life more difficult on that front, with greater responsibility on the shoulders of youngsters Fabio Carvalho and Harvey Elliott. The absence of Thiago was also keenly felt at the City Ground as the midfield lacked both control and creativity with the out-of-sorts Fabinho alongside Curtis Jones.

For the second time in three seasons, Klopp has been managing with one hand tied behind his back, repeatedly chopping and changing a line-up with new injury concerns arising before every game.

Beginning with the Community Shield victory against Manchester City in early August, 19 players have missed at least one game during a campaign we are less than a third of the way through.

On that day, Liverpool were without Alisson, Caoimhin Kelleher, Calvin Ramsay, Kostas Tsimikas, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Diogo Jota.

Since then, there have been injuries to Jota and Tsimikas again as well as Trent Alexander-Arnold, Joel Matip, Ibrahima Konate (twice), Andy Robertson, Thiago, Jordan Henderson, Naby Keita, Curtis Jones, Arthur Melo, Fabio Carvalho, Roberto Firmino, Luis Diaz and most recently Darwin Nunez.

Liverpool Injury Problems games missed
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain 14
Calvin Ramsay 13
Naby Keita 13
Ibrahima Konate 12
Curtis Jones 11
Caoimhin Kelleher 10
Diogo Jota 8
Joel Matip 7
Arthur Melo 6
Thiago Alcantara 5
Luis Diaz 4
Andy Robertson 4
Jordan Henderson 3
Kostas Tsimikas 2
Alisson 1
Darwin Nunez 1
Fabio Carvalho 1
Roberto Firmino 1
Trent Alexander-Arnold 1

Only eight Liverpool first-team players have been available for every competitive game this season. Adrian, Nat Phillips, Virgil Van Dijk, Joe Gomez, Fabinho, James Milner, Harvey Elliott and Mohamed Salah.

The Athletic has reported in depth on some of the key reasons behind Liverpool’s injury problems and why they are a club where a few injuries presents the danger of a domino effect. The club are in the process of appointing a new club doctor, but whatever help that may bring, Klopp expressed his frustrations yesterday at the situation he finds himself in.

“For ‘clicking’ you need consistency in the line-up as well, and at the moment we cannot do that,” he said. “Not at all. Could we sort problems, bigger, smaller? It starts with injuries, but then the players who have no injuries have to play too often and the players who come back from injuries have to play too early.

“And they come back and play, and they have another ‘thing’, and the medical department tells you they cannot play more than 20 minutes, they shouldn’t do this, shouldn’t do that, these kind of things. And then you’ve got a Premier League game against a team with a knife in their teeth! That’s tricky. That situation is not sorted overnight.”

On the pitch, the team has looked disjointed, which is at least in part due to Klopp only naming an unchanged starting 11 for two consecutive games twice this season.

When Liverpool have been at their best under the German, they have kept a very consistent team that has been able to build rhythm and momentum. Instead, Klopp has been forced into changes while trying to also manage the minutes of those available due to the intense fixture schedule.

The partnerships that have served Liverpool so well over the years have therefore been disrupted. The right side triangle of Salah, Henderson and Alexander-Arnold, which has operated so smoothly in the past, have only started together five times when operating in the 4-3-3 system. Elliott, who has mainly filled in for Henderson, is a different type of player and doesn’t offer the same levels of protection, which teams have looked to exploit.

Missing a number of important players has affected the quality Klopp has been able to put out onto the pitch. At full-back, for example, when Liverpool have been without Alexander-Arnold and Robertson, there is drop off to Milner, who can’t give Liverpool the kind of attacking impetus, while Tsimikas, who is joint-top of the club’s assist chart this season, is not as secure defensively.

Liverpool’s midfield has suffered the most throughout the campaign. Liverpool have their experienced core of Milner, Henderson, Thiago; the late twenties trio of Fabinho, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Keita, and the young trio of Jones, Elliott and Carvalho.

They do not, however, have any midfielders in the 22-26 bracket, largely seen as when midfielders peak, and that is a problem.

Nine midfielders entering the campaign should be more than enough, but when two are as injury prone as Keita and Oxlade-Chamberlain and Henderson and Thiago are susceptible to injuries, it can cause the issues that have occurred.

There is no doubting the quality and potential of the latter three, but they should not be the ones shouldering the majority of the responsibility to create and steer Liverpool to victories. Neither should James Milner.

In other areas there is misfortune. Longer-term injuries to Luis Diaz and Diogo Jota significantly weaken a Liverpool attack that came into the season stocked with five quality senior players.

Getting the balance right attacking-wise remains a challenge. Nunez has certainly looked more effective in a 4-4-2 with a second striker like Firmino or Jota for company, but Salah also loves to cut inside into those central areas.

“The more the opposition knows about us the better because the more they worry,” Lijnders wrote defiantly in his book Intensity, a diary of last season that was published in August. “Anyway, how do you stop unpredictability? How do you stop flexibility? How do you stop intensity? Also, we are constantly evolving. The Liverpool of today isn’t the Liverpool of tomorrow or yesterday.”

Stopping Liverpool had become far too easy because those key components were all missing. There was regression rather than evolution. Ditching 4-3-3 has provided greater structure and solidity, but whether 4-4-2 proves to be a long-term solution rather than a short-term fix, the jury is still out.

[Norbs]

OK, so this is officially a crisis. Klopp may resign but would be daft considering progress in the CL. Trouble is that it could he collective burnout and any new manager is going to struggle to get much more out of the team. It's very naive that the owners couldn't see signs of us becoming stale.

We look really poor in most facets. Passing, pace, aggression are all missing. The press was there today but we were just as quick to lose any balls we won

[el matador]

The midfield has totally ruined our season but it’s not like the manager, sporting director and Fenway didn’t know about it. Henderson and Fabinho have been in decline for a while and that lads like Keita and ox couldnt be relied upon this season. They chose not to do anything and that’s on them.

But if the season is going to go up in flames it might as well burn the house down because fundamental surgery is needed not sticking plasters. If klopp has one fault is that he’s too loyal to some lads. If the season turns to ashes he will know that it’s over for some of his generals. There is no going back.

[danperkins]

Souness saying what most of us have been saying since all season. Massive drop off in intensity in the midfield which is effecting the front and the back and we do not have the players in the current system to play with the intensity and aggression that we need.

[Irishnev]

[ame="https://twitter.com/graemekelly1/status/1586469797524406272"]https://twitter.com/graemekelly1/status/1586469797524406272[/ame]

[Tatterdemalion]

Souness saying what most of us have been saying since all season. Massive drop off in intensity in the midfield which is effecting the front and the back and we do not have the players in the current system to play with the intensity and aggression that we need.

Yup I think he called it.