Our style of play

[baitman]

from dempsey thread...

The key to this system is the final third... It is no problem to tap the ball around at the back and among Lucas and his partner in CM; our success will be defined by how we advance the ball when teams finally press us to regain possession and Gerrard/CAM (Shelvey?) will be a huge key to linking up Suarez/Borini/LW and getting the ball into dangerous areas. When I watch Spain, they don't think twice about playing it out of attacking areas into empty space backward, probing multiple areas before they finally get a pass on the floor that carves open a defense. That's all well and good when you can carve open defenses with skill and movement, but can we do that? and if we do, can we be clinical in front of goal? It will be interesting to see how this works for us; I am expecting a season of frustration but growth. But I also expect us to do much better against lesser teams-- those **** results against lower table clubs killed us last year.

we may struggle more against the lesser teams cos we struggle to break down a 10 man defence, like the hodgson system of two banks of four, about 10 yards apart.
so long as we dont chuck a ball into an overcrowded box and expect one or two striker to succeed against a crowded defence, and we play the ball to feet with close control, yet have patience enough to play it back if the killer pass isnt on, then we will do ok.

[dww]

I think we will struggle to break down teams. To make the system work we will have to be a lot more patient than we have been - too often we looked frustrated and then went off the boil last season. I think a move away from crosses to short passing might help.

A big question will be whether that style presents the sort of chances the forwards we have will score from. On the positive side Borini has played for Rodgers before and done well. I also think Suarez will be helped.

[Mattshark]

I think we will struggle to break down teams. To make the system work we will have to be a lot more patient than we have been - too often we looked frustrated and then went off the boil last season. I think a move away from crosses to short passing might help.

A big question will be whether that style presents the sort of chances the forwards we have will score from. On the positive side Borini has played for Rodgers before and done well. I also think Suarez will be helped.

we have too often lacked intelligent movement in the centre and patience around the are, I'm hoping we can change that.

[baitman]

do our players practice the cross bar and goal post challenge

lets hope we manage to convert a few of those woodwork hits into goals this year

[el matador]

interesting article from rafa

Quo Vadis EPL?, by Rafa BenitezGeneral ArticlesRafa Benítez
After eight years in England, I am really pleased to see how many teams in the Premier League are little by little changing their style of play. Despite some opinions to the contrary, the arrival of foreign managers has benefited English football. These days not many question, for example, Manchester City’s zonal marking in corners or the necessary rotations carried out this season to ensure that English players could reach the European Cup with fresh legs. Furthermore, as time goes by we can see how the game is starting to be analysed taking into account aspects like team formation instead of just the performance of individual players.

One of the players from my time at Liverpool FC, who has played in various Premier League teams and is still playing in England, commented about a manager that he’s had: “he trains very similar to the way we used to with you, always with the ball”.

It seems that slowly there begins to be another vision of football and there is even talk of adopting the Spanish model for the youth system. The FA has reacted to this situation although it is going to be a hard task. Amongst other changes The FA is also trying to improve the structure of Football Academies, which is going to be positive. From my personal experience as player and coach in Spain for more than 30 years I would say that two basic things would help: first, youth system coaches’ formation; second, the under 21 competition system.

After analysing the statistics from the different leagues provided by Opta, especially the ones which refer to the Premier League, it appears systematically that Arsene Wenger’s Arsenal has been the team that has always maintained a style of football based on ball possession, even though now that style of play is beginning to spread.

These days it is interesting to see how, after the success of Barcelona and the national Spanish team, there have been followers that have compared themselves to the Catalan team in many aspects of the game but may not realise that Barcelona is what it is because they have spent many years playing in the same way, the same style and, above all, because Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Piqué, Dani Alves and the rest have converted Barcelona into a distinctive team because of their particular style of play and the great quality they have as individuals.

Even so, these statistics make for some interesting points. For example, significantly in the Premier League there have been more passes made in total (351,867) than in La Liga (340,416), and in addition the Premier League has more than seven teams that have exceeded the 20,000 passes although in comparison they still remain far from the statistics illustrated by Barcelona who exceed 29,000 passes in total. But neither Real Madrid nor Valencia have reached those 20.000 passes despite finishing first and third in the Spanish league which shows how the rest of the clubs in La Liga as a whole, do make more passes than teams in the Premier League as a whole.

When talking about style, keeping the ball, possession..., we could also analyse in which part of the pitch the ball is kept. Some of the teams with higher ball possession in the Premier League play a lot in their own half and also with their goalkeeper -which could be a good solution in some situations. The problem is also that their passing success rate in the opposite half is below 80%, far from the 87% shown by Barcelona. This reminds me of what used to happen in Spain 15 years ago with the famous “tiqui-taca”.

Tiqui-taca

The origin of this term, curiously, has negative connotations. Some years ago the Spanish league had public opinion divided between those that defended this type of passing play, generally short passing, and those that defended direct play, as playing long balls was considered more practical.

Coaches like Maguregui or Javier Clemente criticised this type of play (tiqui-taca) because -said in their favour- in those times many teams liked to keep passing the ball without progressing or creating chances. It was all about keeping the ball and waiting for the right moment to find the space and break the defence. It was named in some cases the “windscreen wiper game” because the ball went from one side to the other like a windscreen wiper, without reaching the opposition’s goal. One famous coach and defender of this type of play, “style” over result, told a journalist in answer to the question if he would prefer to win playing badly or lose playing well, that he would prefer to lose playing well. A few days later he was asked to come out and rectify these words, but the debate had already begun.

At Barcelona, Messi, Xavi, Busquets, Iniesta and company have given lustre to the famous “tiqui-taca” and with the arrival of Luis Aragonés to the national team, this group of players and this style of play began to shine and fascinate the world. Del Bosque and Guardiola achieved even greater triumphs with that style of play and above all with that group of players. Now many want to follow that style because it is fashionable, it’s beautiful and on top of that it wins titles. It’s a shame that there is, for example, just one Xavi Hernandez.

[el matador]

basically rafas saying that although possession based football is working well for barca it wont necessarily translate as well into the EPL because simply we dont have the players for the job.

also that barcas entire system is drilled to play that way so they understand the patterns of play and each player has a decent level of technical proficiency. Like he says there is only one xavi hernandez but more to the point there is only one leo messi.

he is the key to their system. if he doesnt play or is off his game, they dont score simple as. last time i checked we dont have a messi playing for us and madrid have just beaten barca playing a more adventurous and high paced style of football.

tiki-taka works but only if you've got the right players. Also i agree in that i dont think its a system that will produce many goals.

[Phoenix07]

A bit Tomkins-esque from Rafa there, padding one point into a whole article.

I liked the 'windscreen wiper' term. Going to have plenty of whingers this season because of Rodgers' style of play. Wouldn't surprise me if we're dubbed 'boring Liverpool' by the press.

[red g]

A bit Tomkins-esque from Rafa there, padding one point into a whole article.

I liked the 'windscreen wiper' term. Going to have plenty of whingers this season because of Rodgers' style of play. Wouldn't surprise me if we're dubbed 'boring Liverpool' by the press.

1-0 to Liverpool will do me just fine

[baitman]

much improved last night. better interplay, less wasteful, if attacks were going nowhere the possession was kept and the ball was played across field rather than chucking it up or taking a blast from 30 yards.

there was still a few times the long ball was chucked up. it nearly paid off a few times, but the poor linesman doesnt know the correct interpretation of offside
i dont think the long ball will serve us well in the prem as most teams will be more aware than Gollum were.

an interesting start.

[baitman]

possession is a dirty work when it doesnt bring an end product...

we need to drive at teams, with goalscoring options in the box.

its becoming very obvious that, for all his creativity and dazzling skills, luis suarez isnt a deadly goal scorer/striker. i have always felt that he is having to do so much of his own creating that he ends up getting mobbed by defenders and he isnt getting the open chances he would otherwise bury, but then he goes and misses a few sitters to leave us all scratching our heads

i reckon a more attacking formation that would allow suarez and gerrard to be creative from advanced midfield, and also allow them to follow up play to support the main strikers would be a better, more clinical option.

something like this;


going forward...

....................borini.....................

assaidi....gerrard....suarez....sterling

..........allen............lucas..............

....skertl........agger.......johnson.....

....................reina.......................

defending...

....................borini.....................
assaidi... gerrard... suarez... sterling
..........allen.....lucas.......
....skertl........agger.......johnson.....
....................reina.......................[/QUOTE]


im not certain that borini is the clinical finisher we need at the front, but im just putting him there on the diagram.
the back three will be subject to change. not sure about enrique or skertl at LB, but you get the idea i hope.

yes, its very offensive, but players can also drop back if we lose possession so it can be more solid and tight at the back, but with blistering pace on the wings and through the middle of the midfield to counter attack. we need goals, and this set up will give us that

any thoughts.

[Gibbo]

It will always stay 4-3-3, but yeah im sure that will work on Fifa

[Muddled]

It's an odd one - Suarez quite clearly makes things happen and you think when defenders are distracted, it would create space for others to work in. Borini will benefit from that, but equally, he won't get the service from Suarez and I don't think it's a coincidence that Borini's best chance came from service from the right. But as the player on the right was Downing; when he drifted out of the game, so did Borini.

Borini then drifted left and the occasion got to him. He looked rather heavy-footed and again, it was on Suarez to do something centrally. You then look at the support from midfield and Gerrard was having a 'mare.

Going back to the formations you have suggested, I think defensively it looks a little wonky. Having watched todays game, the key area for a Rodgers team is the full backs and Johnson is tailor made for what Rodgers expects from his full-backs - I think as a side, we will look balanced with Enrique's return. I think what will be interesting is the evolution of Lucas and the role now expected from him - I think he'll be amongst the goals this season.

So yeah, I don't think the 4-3-3 formation is an issue, it's the personnel we need to make it work and that's why Rodgers needs time.

[DannyMan2006]

We need a top class striker to play central, let Suarez play the role he initially did for Ajax and was doing last I watched Uruguay - basically playing on the wing in a front three.

But I've said this for a long time now and it hasn't happened. Him & Torres would have been incredible bit we never had the chance to see. I'd like to see Borini given a crack at playing central, but he's a couple of years from being of the required experience and standard to play central for a club of our stature.

We need to sell Carroll desperately and get lucky on a gamble.

[Fosterbloke]

I've a good feeling about Assaidi

[Fredo]

We should be careful not to overdo our passing out of defence. We'll get trounced by City if we lose possession and leave gaps behind next week. Without Agger and with Carra in there, I dread what's going to happen.