Our style of play

[Fredo]

I just think that maybe, our expectations are too high at this stage.

We have a fantastic team and just needs a bit more patience for all of this to come to fruition. Hopefully we'll be able to keep our best players and our current manager to achieve this through.

[Fuzzy]

It's frustrating when you consider that we were one CB and one good midfielder away from a proper title challenge in August. We ended up with the Ox, who's the third Joe Allen we've had since Wijnaldum and Joe Allen. No defenders.

The worst thing about all that was the fact that it was supposed to be THE summer. 200m war chest. Klopp appeal. CL football finally back. No need to waste time with buying more squaddies, just two or three top targets. The results were quite disappointing, as are many results this season.

Okay, patience, let's say we're still 'rebuilding' after four transfer windows. Say it's just Coutinho that's leaving. That it really is impossible to spend in January, so we can't complain if noboy joins us now. Realistically, what do you see changing in this club that will turn us from what we are into title contenders?

[cream]

I just think that maybe, our expectations are too high at this stage.

We have a fantastic team and just needs a bit more patience for all of this to come to fruition. Hopefully we'll be able to keep our best players and our current manager to achieve this through.

Klopp is building something special here.

[Chris]

Our expectations being too high is just utter bollocks, we keep winning nothing, keep finishing behind the likes of Spurs and aren’t even averaging 2 points per game this season and are already out of one cup.

[Fredo]

Our expectations being too high is just utter bollocks,[bold] we keep winning nothing, keep finishing behind the likes of Spurs[/bold] and aren’t even averaging 2 points per game this season and are already out of one cup.

Then expectations are definitely too high.

[DeeTheDog]

It's frustrating when you consider that we were one CB and one good midfielder away from a proper title challenge in August. We ended up with the Ox, who's the third Joe Allen we've had since Wijnaldum and Joe Allen. No defenders.

The worst thing about all that was the fact that it was supposed to be THE summer. 200m war chest. Klopp appeal. CL football finally back. No need to waste time with buying more squaddies, just two or three top targets. The results were quite disappointing, as are many results this season.

Okay, patience, let's say we're still 'rebuilding' after four transfer windows. Say it's just Coutinho that's leaving. That it really is impossible to spend in January, so we can't complain if noboy joins us now. Realistically, what do you see changing in this club that will turn us from what we are into title contenders?

Things are changing. We have qualified for the last 16 of the Champions league for the first time since 08-09, scoring 'SEVEN' goals twice in the process and unbeaten. We've only been in the top four once since then so clearly things are improving.

In the league we've only been beaten twice but drawn too many games. Progression isn't linear and we haven't the cash of a City, Chelsea or a United to spend on a revolution so evolution is the way forward, as slow and painful as it is at times.

Our squad is much stronger now than when Klopp took over with a front four which is the envy of most squads in Europe. We are bringing through young, talented players who will only enhance our squad further.

You stated " No need to waste time with buying more squaddies," that's exactly the approach we have adopted, we are waiting a season on Keita and would not accept 2nd choice for the CB position. Personally I think Chamberlain was a good piece of business and supports several positions in our squad.

By the looks of it, City with the strongest squad and the most renowned manager with the most money spent are on record breaking season standards so in hindsight a title push may have been out of reach anyway.

[Chris]

Then expectations are definitely too high.

Nah, you are just talking absolute ****. As usual.

[Fredo]

Nah, you are just talking absolute ****. As usual.

As usual, your tourettes is taking over your thinking.

[dom9]

As usual, your tourettes is taking over your thinking.

He is right though

[Alex]

We have lost 3 competitive games all season so far. 1 of those was in the League Cup.

I think we are going just fine.

[Lecter]

I just think that maybe, our expectations are too high at this stage.

We have a fantastic team and just needs a bit more patience for all of this to come to fruition. Hopefully we'll be able to keep our best players and our current manager to achieve this through.

Parts of the team are fantastic

Parts of it are distinctly average

[Fuzzy]

Things are changing. We have qualified for the last 16 of the Champions league for the first time since 08-09, scoring 'SEVEN' goals twice in the process and unbeaten. We've only been in the top four once since then so clearly things are improving.

In the league we've only been beaten twice but drawn too many games. Progression isn't linear and we haven't the cash of a City, Chelsea or a United to spend on a revolution so evolution is the way forward, as slow and painful as it is at times.

Our squad is much stronger now than when Klopp took over with a front four which is the envy of most squads in Europe. We are bringing through young, talented players who will only enhance our squad further.

You stated " No need to waste time with buying more squaddies," that's exactly the approach we have adopted, we are waiting a season on Keita and would not accept 2nd choice for the CB position. Personally I think Chamberlain was a good piece of business and supports several positions in our squad.

By the looks of it, City with the strongest squad and the most renowned manager with the most money spent are on record breaking season standards so in hindsight a title push may have been out of reach anyway.

You are now really just picking positives that you like, some of them look nice but are actually meaningless, and that's supposed to be the whole picture. For every 7-0 I could point out a thrashing by City or Spurs, which was out of the question last season. We shouldn't lose 5-0 or 4-1 to anyone.

We're in the CL top-16, but we were out of two competitions by October too. We're signing Keita, but losing (hopefully just) Coutinho.
I don't want to continue.

My question was, what needs to change with this club so that we'll eventually win a title, and do people see that happening?

[DeeTheDog]

You are now really just picking positives that you like, some of them look nice but are actually meaningless, and that's supposed to be the whole picture. For every 7-0 I could point out a thrashing by City or Spurs, which was out of the question last season. We shouldn't lose 5-0 or 4-1 to anyone.

We're in the CL top-16, but we were out of two competitions by October too. We're signing Keita, but losing (hopefully just) Coutinho.
I don't want to continue.

My question was, what needs to change with this club so that we'll eventually win a title, and do people see that happening?

I'm not cherry-picking positives, I highlighted quantifiable signs of progress. Our average league position since 08-09 is 6th, last season we finished fourth and are well placed to finish in the top four. Is that not progress? As stated before this is first time since then that we've got to the last 16 in the Champions league. We did that unbeaten. Is that not progress when the last time we were in the competition we struggled against Basel and Ludogorets?

Before Klopp came we played sterile, dull football for almost a season were teams frequently came to Anfield and played us off the park and won. Now we are easily one of the most entertaining teams around and teams fear our attack so much they play an ultra-defensive and celebrate draws like victories.

You highlighted our only two league defeats but only City have lost less. The City game was lost under under mitigating circumstances. By selecting those games to confirm your bias you've used your own argument against yourself.

We have not won the league since 89-90 and we do not have a sugar daddy to spend without consequence. To win the league we will need to overcome the financial head start other teams have on us and that will take time. If you cannot see the progress made under Klopp, then I cannot add anything further.

[Fuzzy]

I'm not cherry-picking positives, I highlighted quantifiable signs of progress. Our average league position since 08-09 is 6th, last season we finished fourth and are well placed to finish in the top four. Is that not progress? As stated before this is first time since then that we've got to the last 16 in the Champions league. We did that unbeaten. Is that not progress when the last time we were in the competition we struggled against Basel and Ludogorets?

Before Klopp came we played sterile, dull football for almost a season were teams frequently came to Anfield and played us off the park and won. Now we are easily one of the most entertaining teams around and teams fear our attack so much they play an ultra-defensive and celebrate draws like victories.

You highlighted our only two league defeats but only City have lost less. The City game was lost under under mitigating circumstances. By selecting those games to confirm your bias you've used your own argument against yourself.

We have not won the league since 89-90 and we do not have a sugar daddy to spend without consequence. To win the league we will need to overcome the financial head start other teams have on us and that will take time. If you cannot see the progress made under Klopp, then I cannot add anything further.

First of all, in no way do I think we're not better off with Klopp than we were with Hodgson, Rodgers or even Rafa. The two defeats I mentioned were not to illustrate how **** we are or anything, but to show how you can't just pick two outstanding results (7-0 against MB and Spartak) and use them as some sort of example or whatever, which is what you were doing. What I said, if you read carefully, was actually that we're really close to a league-winning team and that we had an ideal chance to build on that last summer - but we didn't.

You're right though, we can't match some of the rivals' budget, but our net spend on average is still only 23m per season! We were all hearing about a 200m budget this summer, ok maybe that was unrealistic (although who leaked it, and why??), but our net spend at the end was basically still only what Ox had cost. We had the chance to go for Lemar and add that special quality, but we played it safe and added a merely useful player that does not excel at anything. He's decent, but he's more in that Wijnaldum/Klavan/Matip/Karius/Robertson league, rather than Mane or Salah. We've had enough of those. There's been so much said about our defensive recruitment that I'm not even gonna go there. All I'll say is that not being able to sign a capable defender that costs more than 8m on the market in four transfer windows is your fault, not the market's.

Where's the turning point, when are we going to reach it? A 100m spending spree would be it in my opinion, but we're not seeing that, so what's the alternative? No matter what happens next summer, it's going to be near impossible to replace Coutinho. So who guarantees us that Mane or Salah will want to stay here for three more years while we continue rebuilding into eternity and win nothing? Progress or not, it's not the way to go.

[Patricks_Berger]

Auyl-bang-a-mam (for Sturridge); Draxler (for Couts); Keita (for Can) plus VVD - means we are only a decent goalie away from cracking it.

Chins up lads.