Lucas

[baronvonskidmark]

Joe Allen seems to get injured just as much as Lucas tbh - he is injured now after all - and when he is injured I pretty much forget that we have him at all. I can't really remember a game thinking 'we need to tighten up, bring on Allen' or 'we need to be more creative, bring on Allen'. If he was fit, he could be sold tomorrow with no impact on our squad.

We need to have some kind of DM. Perhaps Can can do it. Lucas can be improved upon, without doubt. But he is the best we have at what he does, he gets the club and is used to the league. It seems almost whimsical to leave it until the season starts to make this kind of decision.

[danperkins]

Allen is the epitome on average, he's just there. We wouldn't miss him in the slightest if he was gone. It took Rodgers a long time last season to get Lovren out of the side & get Gerrard out of the DM position.... at that stage we were way behind and the damage was done.

Lucas came in and was outstanding & Sakho came in and was fantastic... not a coincidence we looked more solid and balanced side. Rodgers is persistent i'll give him that.

[Chris]

Defo the most overrated and underrated player we've ever had!! He's got Kenny like status on RAWK and is hailed as the reason for our run last season and the evil scumbag Allen responsible for every defeat even though it was Allen in the team for our hardest games during that run and not Lucas. While others elsewhere seem to think he's Poulsen bad. So strange!

[The_weatherman]

Allen is the epitome on average, he's just there. We wouldn't miss him in the slightest if he was gone. It took Rodgers a long time last season to get Lovren out of the side & get Gerrard out of the DM position.... at that stage we were way behind and the damage was done.

Lucas came in and was outstanding & Sakho came in and was fantastic... not a coincidence we looked more solid and balanced side. Rodgers is persistent i'll give him that.

Sakho and Lucas are so obvious choices to me, can't fathom it really.

[Lecter]

Barca need one, the rest are midgets and spend the whole game in the opposition penalty box....even the full backs.

I can't, i don't watch that much football these days.

But my point is that one of the three will sit whilst the other two maraud forward and drive us on. But all three have the ability to play whatever role they're required to. I also think all three have the intelligence to realise this and be aware where the other two are. Which is key.

I get what you are saying and the theory behind it

I think in practice its extremely difficult to achieve which is probably why few if any other clubs play this way

[peekay]

Baffling that we are looking to sell Lucas before Allen. I don't think it is because Lucas is less willing to sit on the bench compared to Allen. But not making the 18 when fit is a whole new deal. I can understand Lucas wanting to leave when he is not even making the squad.

I also highly doubt Allen would have missed out on making the squad if he was fit.

[Buzzo]

Strange decision indeed, one that doesn't appear to be based on any evidence seen in watching us play. If we are planning on playing with attacking full backs (as discussed recently) we need to have a holding midfielder. When we turned the corner briefly last season (potentially rescuing Brendans career) it was his recognition of this fact and the reintroduction of Lucas that built the platform for us to stabilise.

You need someone to cover on the occasions the full backs are caught out of position. All teams who have successfully played with attacking fullbacks have had sitting midfielders. Brazil with Cafu and Carlos played with 2. César Sampaio and Dunga. Barca always have Busquets or Mascherano when he was playing in midfield for them.

I reckon teams with a half decent midfield will be able to pick us off at will if we play with Can - Hendo - Milner in the middle.

We shall see.

And if, 'IF' we could sign absolutely 'anyone' Mascherano would be the player who could totally transform our starting XI.

[danperkins]

IMO it is arrogant of us to think that we can go this season without a dedicated DM in the squad. Managers that are tactically better than Hughes will find ways in and around those 3.

In saying that, if that is the way to go, I fully expect a huge improvement in performance and fitness from Can,Milner & Henderson. I get there will be a hell of alot of energy and pressing in there. I just don't like the fact the none of these lads are defensive midfielders & all of these lads are very naturally progressive and can cause opposition problems when going forward. I'm saying it's square pegs in round holes again like last season but I do fear it stifles all 3 players natural game & that maybe we could benefit more in a setup where we play to their strengths.

[peekay]

IMO it is arrogant of us to think that we can go this season without a dedicated DM in the squad. Managers that are tactically better than Hughes will find ways in and around those 3.

In saying that, if that is the way to go, I fully expect a huge improvement in performance and fitness from Can,Milner & Henderson. I get there will be a hell of alot of energy and pressing in there. I just don't like the fact the none of these lads are defensive midfielders & all of these lads are very naturally progressive and can cause opposition problems when going forward. I'm saying it's square pegs in round holes again like last season but I do fear it stifles all 3 players natural game & that maybe we could benefit more in a setup where we play to their strengths.

Very good post.

Also given the number of games we have to pay this season - I really cannot see Can,Milner & Henderson - playing their pressing game to max effectiveness in all games they start. Also if we remove one of the three due to injury or tiredness - I would rather have Lucas than Allen. At the very least he provides a defensive base and the other 2 can focus on their natural game - moving the ball forward.

[Fosterbloke]

Just because no one else is doing something doesn't make it a bad choice. Who else was playing a diamond a couple of seasons back?

I'm pretty sure Rodgers has assessed various formations and player combinations to see that Lucas doesn't fit with the long term vision. Maybe he does but wants more playing time?

[BootRoom]

Get shut of Lucas and keep Allen. Nice logic, Brendan.

[SK]

Just because no one else is doing something doesn't make it a bad choice. Who else was playing a diamond a couple of seasons back?

AC Mi!an with Kaka behind Sheva and Inzaghi comes to mind..

[BootRoom]

IMO it is arrogant of us to think that we can go this season without a dedicated DM in the squad. Managers that are tactically better than Hughes will find ways in and around those 3.

In saying that, if that is the way to go, I fully expect a huge improvement in performance and fitness from Can,Milner & Henderson. I get there will be a hell of alot of energy and pressing in there. I just don't like the fact the none of these lads are defensive midfielders & all of these lads are very naturally progressive and can cause opposition problems when going forward. I'm saying it's square pegs in round holes again like last season but I do fear it stifles all 3 players natural game & that maybe we could benefit more in a setup where we play to their strengths.

They'll have to start weighing in with goals and clear-cut chances created if this apparent trade-off between defence and attack is going to bear fruit. Last year the midfield was woeful in providing any sort of defensive cover and also poor at launching attacks, hence the abysmal goal-scoring record.

[danperkins]

Very good post.

Also given the number of games we have to pay this season - I really cannot see Can,Milner & Henderson - playing their pressing game to max effectiveness in all games they start. Also if we remove one of the three due to injury or tiredness - I would rather have Lucas than Allen. At the very least he provides a defensive base and the other 2 can focus on their natural game - moving the ball forward.

[danperkins]

They'll have to start weighing in with goals and clear-cut chances created if this apparent trade-off between defence and attack is going to bear fruit. Last year the midfield was woeful in providing any sort of defensive cover and also poor at launching attacks, hence the abysmal goal-scoring record.

absolutely & if Henderson & Milner are too busy covering beside around Can... surely that will effect their production?

I suppose it all depends on how confident we are to leave Can back there on his own. He's a bit more mobile than Steven but I wouldn't say their defensive abilities are much different. I suppose we'll find out over the next few games if Milner and Henderson are too busy covering the defensive areas to get forward and support the front men. Actually in the Stoke game when Can came on, within two mins Henderson was bombing into the box, was great to see. Whether or not he can do that against the better sides we'll see.

IMO this formation and setup relies heavily on the legs of Henderson & Milner.