Martin Skrtel

[Rowan]

Whoever said Skrtel isn't our biggest problem right now is right... And that's a pretty damning indictment of our current state when you consider how utterly ****ing inept wor Marty Perkins is.

He's one of life's great paradoxes in that I'm not really that surprised when he plays very well in the same way that I'm equally unsurprised when he puts in one of his Marty Specials. If he was the weather forecast he'd be cloudy with a hint of sunshine... And the prospect of huge **** ups. Either way he needs binned along with his current partner and crime and the bloke that thinks they are the best starting centrebacks at the club.

[Exiled_red]

Whoever said Skrtel isn't our biggest problem right now is right... And that's a pretty damning indictment of our current state when you consider how utterly ****ing inept wor Marty Perkins is.

He's one of life's great paradoxes in that I'm not really that surprised when he plays very well in the same way that I'm equally unsurprised when he puts in one of his Marty Specials. If he was the weather forecast he'd be cloudy with a hint of sunshine... And the prospect of huge **** ups. Either way he needs binned along with his current partner and crime and the bloke that thinks they are the best starting centrebacks at the club.

However bad we may think he is, when our senior CBs are Sktrel, Lovren Sakho and Toure, at worst he is the 2nd best of that lot

[calvoboy]

Whoever said Skrtel isn't our biggest problem right now is right... And that's a pretty damning indictment of our current state when you consider how utterly ****ing inept wor Marty Perkins is.

Staggering that he's our best CB (Sakho too fragile, Toure too old, Lovren too utterly ****).

[Muddled]

Already said take out Terry and Cahill so forget that. Koscielny I like and have said previous and got pelters on here. Arsenal are so dominant in possession that they have the ball most of the time, takes massive pressure off their defence. The rest of the names you mentioned :

Fonte: nobody mentioned his name up until recently and hadn't got a clue about him. People guessing now that he must of been the reason Lovren looked so good (which he didn't)
Jagielka : Gets dogs abuse on here for being ****.
Ashley Williams : Est nearly exploded when linked with him.
Mert:

You asked for one name, you've got five. So the criteria now is name a better defender than Martin Skrtel last season who:

1/ Is not John Terry or Gary Cahill;
2/ Does not have a defensive midfielder in front of them;
3/ Is not part of a possession based team;
4/ Has to have received universal acceptance on Est1892;

Those goalposts are moving.

[The Birdman]

I don't think that those positions are solely down to Skrtel those are basically the seasons since Rafa left. The last couple of years of Rafa's time here we had no investment in the squad thanks to H&G and IMO we have never really recovered from that. This might be controversial but I don't think that over the last 5 years our team/squad quality has ever surpassed the level we were at when Rafa left despite fairly significant investment and a fairly large turnover of players. The 2013-14 season we did well but Suarez and Sturridge's goals papered over alot of cracks and the squad itself was wafer thin. With all due respect to Kenny and Rodgers I don't think we have had a manager that has had the ability to make us compete at the top end of the game since Rafa. (Again the 2013-14 season might suggest otherwise but I think that since we have proved that was more due to Suarez than Rodgers.)

Accept all of that.
Skrtel and Lucas are the 2 constants in a sustained period of underachieving as a club.
Lucas has been ruined by injury, he can't run now, let alone turn.

Skrtel has just always been mediocre, I get other people think differently and that's fine but I've held the same opinion on him from day 1 when he got bullied by the Havent & Waterloville striker getting paid £100 a week.
He cannot defend 1v1, he isn't dominant in terms of winning 90% of his headers, he gets bullied by big physical strikers and he's shocking in possession.
He's a passable 2nd CB if played with a FB protecting him.

No-one can dispute any of that because the evidence is there game after game, season after season.

I completely agree that we've had bigger problems to solve - I've been asked if he's that **** why is he still at LFC and the answer is during his time we've had to replace -
Gerrard, Carra, Suarez, Torres, Alonso, Mascher, Reina, Sterling plus loads of others.

So faced with replacing those on a limited budget I'd have probably kept Skrtel - not as my 1st choice though.
I'd be playing Gomez there now, both Skrtel and Lovren cost us goals and aren't going to improve, Gomez will also make mistakes but his potential is massive.
A back 4 of Clyne, Gomez, Sakho and Moreno has pace, athleticism and allows us to play 10 yards higher making the high press easier to execute.

It also means we're as a team much closer to Benteke which will benefit everyone, most of all him who's shown enough so far that with proper service he'll get us close to top 4.

[G]

Accept all of that.
Skrtel and Lucas are the 2 constants in a sustained period of underachieving as a club.
Lucas has been ruined by injury, he can't run now, let alone turn.

Skrtel has just always been mediocre, I get other people think differently and that's fine but I've held the same opinion on him from day 1 when he got bullied by the Havent & Waterloville striker getting paid £100 a week.
He cannot defend 1v1, he isn't dominant in terms of winning 90% of his headers, he gets bullied by big physical strikers and he's shocking in possession.
He's a passable 2nd CB if played with a FB protecting him.

No-one can dispute any of that because the evidence is there game after game, season after season.

I completely agree that we've had bigger problems to solve - I've been asked if he's that **** why is he still at LFC and the answer is during his time we've had to replace -
Gerrard, Carra, Suarez, Torres, Alonso, Mascher, Reina, Sterling plus loads of others.

So faced with replacing those on a limited budget I'd have probably kept Skrtel - not as my 1st choice though.
I'd be playing Gomez there now, both Skrtel and Lovren cost us goals and aren't going to improve, Gomez will also make mistakes but his potential is massive.
A back 4 of Clyne, Gomez, Sakho and Moreno has pace, athleticism and allows us to play 10 yards higher making the high press easier to execute.

It also means we're as a team much closer to Benteke which will benefit everyone, most of all him who's shown enough so far that with proper service he'll get us close to top 4.

to all that.

[el matador]

skrtel and lovren are both so bad that a decent semi-pro striker would give them a rough time.

[frank the tank]

skrtel and lovren are both so bad that a decent semi-pro striker would give them a rough time.

they're both dog****e

[Slinky Skills]

All of them have their own issues but together is a cluster **** of a central defensive unit.

A keeper that can't kick and two CBs that can't do the basics right.

You forgot to mention that he can't throw either, unless he throws it out of play or at the back of an opposition striker's head.

[danperkins]

You asked for one name, you've got five. So the criteria now is name a better defender than Martin Skrtel last season who:

1/ Is not John Terry or Gary Cahill;
2/ Does not have a defensive midfielder in front of them;
3/ Is not part of a possession based team;
4/ Has to have received universal acceptance on Est1892;

Those goalposts are moving.

give over Muds, I'm just stating the obvious about what the defence had infront of them.. which blatantly effects the performance of any defence. Individual performances become that bit harder when you're getting not help in front of you. Just a sidebar to our debate.

Anyways you named five players in which you probably seen play 5 or 6 games each live throughout the season? I love the mentioning of Fonte now after Lovren has been such a nightmare, wasn't a word mentioned about it until few months ago. Same people barely watched Southampton saying Lovern was the champion/organiser extraordinar of the Southampton defence when he signed for us? Now apparently it was Fonte who is the main man. How many time have people watched him live? Not many I bet.

Jagielka, really? Has been absolutely ridiculed on here. I mentioned Koscielny previous here as I like him, got ripped apart. Mert/Williams/Lescott also considered laughing stocks on here. Regarding the stats, the use of statistics can be very deceiving but I think you know that. They have their worth no doubts but there is alot more to it that the figures.

Every CB will make individual mistakes & Skrtel makes them no doubts. Vincent Kompany has been ****e for 2 seasons and he's considered on of the best in the world. There is a fundamental issue with our midfield and the way we are setup or not setup for that matter, which is directly effecting the defence. I've said I think he's a decent CB, no more no less... others have said he's ****e/clown etc. Only so long a back and forth can go on for. Nothing wrong with it just a major difference in opinion. I actually don't know how I became the "leader of the Skrtel fanclub" to be honest. I think I just thought the criticism was unjust on times and seemed to end up of the defence.

I'm not saying Skrtel is up there with Baresi/Beckenbauer ffs , I just said I think he's a decent CB & IMO he was only behind Terry/Cahill performance wise last season, you disagree and that's fine. Why are people talking about Skrtel being a constant, it's a really terrible and flawedd argument, that is exactly what we need.... a consistent team selection, formation and setup. Maybe it's more about the amount of moving parts around the whole team...especially the defence for the last few years? You keep ****ing around with any defence, chopping changing.. bad things happen. For me, the midfield is the main issue though. I just think the reaction is over the top and seem to end up defending him.. go figure. Thread escalated as expected

[Vermilion]

You two still debating this point.

[danperkins]

You two still debating this point.

Beats me being callled a Harry Potter looking Skrtel loving wum cunt

[Nicey]

I have always thought that Lovern was actually shipped in to replace Skrtel and not Sakho, he"s right footed afterall, surprised he has not been tried in Skrtels position. Except for that stint in the middle of a back 3, Skirel has looked a 6.5 - 7.00 out of ten his entire career when we need a minimum 8 out of 10

[Muddled]

give over Muds, I'm just stating the obvious about what the defence had infront of them.. which blatantly effects the performance of any defence. Individual performances become that bit harder when you're getting not help in front of you. Just a sidebar to our debate.

Anyways you named five players in which you probably seen play 5 or 6 games each live throughout the season?

5/ Has to have been observed live on more than seven occasions.

[Chris]

You asked for one name, you've got five. So the criteria now is name a better defender than Martin Skrtel last season who:

1/ Is not John Terry or Gary Cahill;
2/ Does not have a defensive midfielder in front of them;
3/ Is not part of a possession based team;
4/ Has to have received universal acceptance on Est1892;

Those goalposts are moving.

Yep, just a bit. Funny the same people never write off any Lovren/Sakho/Toure errors with "Mignolet is ****" "No DM" "No balance in midfield" aswell.